Lost friends because I am not a believer

💐 for OP and others who’ve lost friends. Why are people so afraid to discuss their differences? I can only assume because they’re scared of realising their own terfyness!
I’ve not directly lost friends, but there’ve been a fair few tumbleweed moments when I make what I think are perfectly obvious statements. That tends to be among people who work in very corporate environments - they’ve been ‘trained’! Similarly GC statements have earned me approving looks from other friends (generally those who lead slightly less conventional lives), and from my lesbian cousin, so a bit win some, lose some in my experience.

I'm pretty out about trans women being men and I haven't lost any friends, there may be few who are quietly thinking less of me. Even on Facebook during the Olympics when I put up a few rants about men not belonging in women's categories (specifically that NZ weightlifter) nobody said anything against me. In person I've had a few comments like "people should be allowed to live the life that they want to" or "well I don't want to be unkind to others" because they think I want to victimise trans women. But actually I don't care what anybody wears or what name they use in day to day life or even what pronouns they prefer, I only care when they impinge on sex based rights.

Quite often I will say to people, think of the creepiest or scariest man you have ever met, now think about how you would feel if that man can be in a swimming pool changing room with your teenage daughter just by saying that he is a woman. Not one of them has ever said that they would support his right to do that. I find that putting their daughters in the frame focusses their minds better than talking about prisons/refuges/sport.

And my family - all on board apart from one who I don't get on terribly well with anyway, so we try to avoid the topic!

I don't see most of my close friends very often due to distance, so have not really delved into the topic with them...and I'm also a bit hesitant to try. A brief foray left me disappointed (but with intact friendships). One friend raised it and is firmly reality based, which is great to know! And I have also spoken up amongst acquaintances (book club with colleagues), and defended my position...managed to not get directly called a bigot, and have not been cut off! Seems they have a diversity of opinions, some seem reluctant to discuss it much, but none felt the need to stop talking to me and I think some also found it useful to hear different sides of the discussion.

No one I know believes TWAW. Sensible crowd my friends and family

Genius song lyrics! Anyone brave enough to record it?

I am GC. Work know I'm GC. Not had any problems so far, considering what I do for a living!! (can't say - I know, irritating)

@arethereanyleftatall I'd like to be friends with you

Hasn't affected mine at all, because every single person I know also doesn't believe anyone can change sex. It's bullshit. In fact I've gone up in the eyes of my friends because I'm prepared to stand up and say it loud and proud..

If your aunt supports the idea that trans people can change sex, did she manage to convince you that she does not hate gay people?

Love this!!

I’ve lost one friend, but that loss was not much of a loss

I’ve gained or strengthened many more friendships through being GC.

You could look at it another way. Their adherence to wacky luxury beliefs have cost them friends.

Indeed. My line is quite simple. If people feel they were born in the wrong body (as it used to be called), then they absolutely should crack on. However, nothing will make them the opposite sex. They remain a man/woman who has had surgery. I also absolutely beleive that the wellbeing of the majority of women and girls should be prioritised over the rights of a vociferous minority when those rights clash
The only flack I have ever had was when I refused to put my preferred pronouns on mu email at work.

@FlytingMachar outstanding! Thank you

You're not alone, OP. I've lost an entire friendship group and it was extremely painful. Two of them blocked me when they discovered what I thought (and actually it was all pretty mild - if they really knew what I thought no doubt they'd be totally horrified).

Luckily my partner and family all understand and accept reality - you can't change sex and male people are a threat to female people, whatever they say their identity is. And I've connected with a few terfy women online which has been really nice.

But no doubt it can be a lonely and difficult path. Meghan Murphy has talked a bit about how it can be scary saying your views out loud, but once you do, the liberation is fantastic. I totally feel that. Even though it's been painful, I wouldn't go back.

I lost Facebook friends and a couple of real life friends, but mostly back in 2016/7 my feminist friends thought I was a bit of a nut, it was a fringe issue that didn’t matter.

Now the majority are full on GC, absolutely not having any of it, and the minority (about 4 of them) have trans-identity teenagers.

My friends and I who disagree just don’t talk about it. There’s plenty more stuff we agree on and can engage with.

I feel awful for people who have been excluded for knowing that sex is real and saying so. It does show how strong the instinct to stay in the group is, heretics have to be isolated if their arguments can't be defeated.

My best friend and my partner are both TWAW. We dont talk about it. I also got into a bit of debate with another friend a couple of years ago who was also TWAW, other than that, I have no idea as I now tend to keep my views to myself unless asked in RL.

Alot of people do tend to be surprised at my view though, they cant seem to fit the idea that I hate the Tory party and everything it stands for now, yet can be GC.

Brava!

I know of only one person over 25 who believes you can change sex. And that is a C of E vicar who also believes in polyamory.

I've only spoken to my two closest friends and my brother on this subject and due to our age and that we all took biology and science subjects at school decades ago, we firmly believe that you cannot change sex.

As I believe Sir Robert Winston pointed out last year on Question Time and he should know.