KJK's film out at 8pm tonight

The sperm donor can not go on the birth certificate. It would give him rights and responsibilities legally.

Birth certificates are legal documents, not a record of biological processes.

Where is the record of the child’s father on that birth certificate?

That has nothing to do with the fact that two women can not got be on the birth certificate, because one of the names on the birth certificate needs to belong to a man, or be left blank.

My kids have two women on their birth certificate. Lesbian couples have been able to do this for a long time.

If you want to roll back these rights then that is simply anti-lesbian.

www.gov.uk/register-birth/who-can-register-a-birth

If a couple are married then the names of the couple should go on the birth certificate whatever sex they are.
Or names should only go on after a DNA test.
Anything else is simply anti lesbian.

*cert not very

If two women adopted they would appear on the adoption certificate. If it’s the case of one woman being the biological parent, they would appear on the birth certificate and presumably the other would adopt the child? I’m not sure how that would work in terms of a birth and adoption very. I was merely correcting the idea that children’s ‘birth certificates’ are changed when adopted, they are not, an adoption certificate replaces the birth cert for legal purposes and the parents are listed as adoptive parents on the adoption certificate, not biological parents.

human Biology is very heterosexual when it comes to making babies.

Biology is heterosexist, heteronormative, homophobic, transphobic, sexist and disablist too.

As a wise woman (banned from twitter) said - take it up with the deity of your choice!

I don't care who adopts. If they are capable and not likely to harm the Child then fine

That has nothing to do with the fact that two women can not got be on the birth certificate, because one of the names on the birth certificate needs to belong to a man, or be left blank.

That's not homophobic that's biology. One male one female to make a baby. How that happens will be down to personal preference. But you cannot defy the laws of biology.

if anything blame Biology. human Biology is very heterosexual when it comes to making babies.

I ask because what you are saying doesn’t make sense to me.

Can you break down, and quote the posts you are referring to, to illustrate how you drew that conclusion please.

Right, I see. Straight couples adopting is all fine and dandy but two women appearing on a child's birth certificate is a step too far and the thin end of the wedge.

Yes @EndlessTea . I think there are a few misconceptions about adoption and it’s often brought up in the gender argument, whether it’s about adoptive parents breastfeeding (never happens) to justify males doing it or the legal fiction on birth certificates.

That makes perfect sense. It means that the child in their own time can trace their ancestry and find family, but the adoptive parents are able to execute all their responsibilities towards the child, without admin hinderance.

The original birth certificate is not wiped out of existence, but it becomes a historical document rather than a legal one you can use for things like opening bank accounts and obtaining passports.

Adopted children are always mentioned in this argument. I’d just like to point out that when a child is adopted, an adoption certificate replaces the birth certificate for all legal purposes. I am looking at one right now - it clearly states ‘adoption certificate’. It has the ‘adoptive parents’ names listed, not mother and father. It also lists the court and date the adoption took place.

This.

Biological truth is important and the birth certificate should document that.

Any deviation opens the floodgates for all sorts of nonsense.

I disagree with you.

Your arguing for legal fiction, not biological reality, on birth certificates is the thin end of the wedge.

This is where the TRAs start claiming that all LGBT rights are under attack.

There is such a huge difference between the legal fiction of birth certificates for donor conceived children and the legal fiction of birth certificates for trans people.

Documenting the actual truth - yes always.

Enshrining the actual truth in law when in comes to women's rights and what constitutes a woman - yes always.

Enshrining the actual truth in law when it comes to adopted children and donor conceived children - no of course not.

Adoptive parents would have no legal parental rights and donors would have legal parental rights. It's crazy talk and benefits nobody.

I think we should all start documenting the actual truth as far as it is possible to do so.

i don’t believe we should be making parents take DNA tests before registering births, it should be accepted that the woman who gave birth is the mother and taken on trust that the man who shows up to register the birth is the father as before.

If, for example, a woman falls pregnant as a result of a drunken shag on holiday and can barely remember the bloke, we can’t really expect the father can always be traced.

However the goal should be mum and bio dad.

Now that fertility ‘treatments’ are available, where doctors implant one woman’s egg inside another woman, it messes things up.

Perhaps the woman’s medical records from the fertility doctor should keep the details of the woman’s whose egg it is and details of the man whose sperm it is and these documents must be brought along to register the birth.

It wouldn’t look pretty, but the child’s birth certificate would be:

Mother: She who gestated and gave birth.
Father: Man who comes along to be registered as father

then have an additional section, headed by words to the effect of ‘medically implanted pregnancy’ and underneath:

Genetic mother: Woman whose egg was used
Genetic father: Man whose sperm was used

That way the child has a proper record of who they are.

I think keeping birth certificates to DNA parents is superb idea.

Anyway @AmandaJonah when can you make a TERFtalk Tuesday to put your accusations to KJK? Do check your diary for me, there's a dear.

Unfortunately the law has yet to catch up with the many ways a woman can come to be pregnant.

Personally I'd like DNA tests for all children. would solve a lot of issues later on.

But whatever the law says and whenever it catches up it still requires one male contribute and one female contributor. a mother and a father regardless of who actually raises them.

@EndlessTea With various fertility treatments are mothers always the biological mother? What about egg donation?

Plenty of married opposite sex couples use sperm donors or have affairs. You are naïve if you think paternity can be assumed.

Umm…. Err…., 😂😂😭😂