Will smears be done by men/TWs in future?

When was Valerie Kneale's killer identified?

I’m not sure of the dates of arrest/charge etc but

“A healthcare professional (Hernando Puno), has been arrested on suspicion of murder, rape and sexual assault following a police investigation at Blackpool Victoria Hospital.

A spokesman for Lancashire Police said the man was in custody after being arrested on suspicion of murder, two offences of rape and one offence of sexual assault.

The arrest was made as part of a murder investigation into the death of Valerie Kneale, 75, from Blackpool, who died from a haemorrhage caused by a non-medical-related internal injury.

www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20220105/2822094241985

I can’t find an update about the actual hearing.

@mnhq I'd appreciate an explanation for my deletion, thank you. Not least so I don't break whatever rule it is I've apparently broken again.

When was Valerie Kneale's killer identified?

Why was my post deleted?!?! There was nothing controversial in it!

I'm genuinely confused as to what your point is. Currently a male nurse can give a smear test and asks you if you want a female chaperon. You had a (who you assume to be) a female nurse asking if you want a female chaperone. So I can't understand what the problem or question is. I'm GC for the record

Three years ago I needed a breast check after odd pains around my armpit.

A female ultrasound team checked me over, they were great. A female mammographer also did an excellent job. Then I had to see the consultant to do a physical check and draw all the results together. He asked me to go into the curtained bit, take all my clothes off my top half and lie down on the usual padded table. He shouted “nurse”, for a chaperone. When he had checked I was ready, he came in to examine me. I looked up at the ceiling as it would have been uncomfortable to look into the face of a strange man manipulating my breast.

When the consultant said he’d finished, I looked up and saw a man at the end of the padded table by my feet who had watched throughout. He was the chaperone.

I felt violated. I had expected to see a woman. No-one had asked me if I’d be ok with a male chaperone, let alone with a stranger.

@RichardBarrister - what a fucking creep

I have a male gynaecologist and never had a chaperone. Just me and him in the room.

They do it regardless of the sex or gender of the HCPs involved. Partly to protect the patient, but mostly to cover their backs in case of allegations. Everyone is very litigious nowadays.

A London GP has done exactly that and has been interviewed for several articles being very pleased with himself that his Muslim patients let him do more invasive procedures than before. Apparently he took time off to transition and then returned to the practice and apparently some of his patients assumed he was a female relative of his previous incarnation of a male GP.

Just been to see a private male gynae today. Female nurse was automatically brought in as chaperone for examination without being asked.

Slight sidebar - but I don't think having a chaperone automatically makes it fine. I had to have a coil removed by a male doctor, there was a chaperone there, and for some reason it just made me really uncomfortable. It wasn't because of fear he would do something inappropriate, it was just the fact that it was a man. I still think about it sometimes and my skin crawls, which I don't get when I think about my smears with female nurses.

It didn't help that he used stirrups which I'd never encountered before, it felt really undignified.

I was offered a chaperone when a Muslim female doctor (I had asked for a female doctor) did a breast check. Had the doctor been a transwomen I may well have refused the exam or, more likely because I am a wuss, insisted on a chaperone. I live in an area with a large Muslim demographic. I doubt they'd pull that shit on us

There then seems to be some partial acceptance of gender selection from a HC P when it comes to other roles.

Because there is a difference in roles? All the psychiatrists I've seen were men for example and ignoring the paternalism (all of them)/patting my knee and calling me beautiful (the last one), I could cope. They were there to discuss symptoms/medication not the root of my trauma. For all their faults, they had the empathy to organise female psychologists for that.

There is a massive difference between say psychiatrists and smears/childbirth. My current smear is overdue because they can't guarantee who will do it and after my experience detailed upthread in which a perfect nice male doctor delivered dc1, I daren't risk it.

I had a breast exam from a male consultant. His hands were freezing (I know female hcps also have cold hands but in my experience they apologise before sticking them on your naked bits), he checked the lump and said it was fine. Then without asking or saying anything, he stuck his cold hands on my other breast. When I jumped, he laughed and said it made sense to check them both. Obviously it did, but he could have handled it better. It's also the knee patting, hair stroking and other random physical contact I've had from doctors...that's all come from men. Minor little things which you'd never ask consent for because that would just highlight the absurdity of for example asking a labouring woman if you can stroke her hair. It's the little things which add up and make women uncomfortable. When I mentioned the hair stroking at debrief to the hospital, the senior midwife couldn't understand why any woman, not even one with a history like mine might have an issue with it. Perhaps things like that need dealing with before aiming to make nursing 50/50.

When I was last in hospital overnight I refused to have a male nurse give me a bedpan and that was fine, a woman came instead. I don't see why we have to have a 50/50 split on every job (and e.g. coal mining it is illegal for women to work underground in a mine - though not in an open cast mine, presumably). Men do not seem to object to female nurses, but some women object to male nurses for intimate care (and most do not object to male doctors as long as there is a woman present - which there always has been in my case, no TWs). That being so, and men not being particularly interested in nursing in large numbers, I doubt we need even a one-third/two-third split. Equality splits both ways where the job involves intimate care of any kind - the needs of the person receiving care are as important (possibly more important) than the needs of the carer in relation to sex of either. Also, some jobs, activities etc are restricted on a sex basis because sex and pregnancy are protected characteristics e.g. there are laws about how much a woman can carry etc - do we want these protections repealed? Repeal of this protective legislation was the position of radical feminists in the 70s although I could never understand why because these protections were to enable women to be in the workforce but bore in mind that women have needs that require different treatment from men - Kathleen Stock has a good article on this (re Maoist China) in her blog).

@RichardBannister

@RichardBarrister

Apologies I meant sex in this discussion.

We accept a 50/50 split in sex for medicine degrees and if we had a consultant obstetrician going for a job role we would not discriminate on sex grounds for that position. So for medicine the 50/50 split is natural and in fact it would be potentially illegal to discriminate on a protected characteristic i.e. sex.

a lot of NH S recruitment is name and sex blind on shortlisting and so you can expect applicants of both sexes getting through for a range of HCP positions and theoretically that would lead to a 50/50 split. However we as a society possibly accept a predominance of women in nursing but we would definitely not discourage men for applying so maybe this will change in future.

I think ultimately does sex of staff have to be a formal consideration when addressing the NHS work force and how could this be done without contravening employment law?

I am not unsympathetic to the views here but there is a lot to consider.
T

don't wish to come across as insensitive but we have major gender inequality in nursing for example and if we win to have a 50/50 split in nursing gender then inevitably there will be more men working on wards and interacting with female patients. Is this a bad thing or should we not address gender inequality within some staff groups?

Why would you be trying to have a 50/50 split between male and female nurses when you know that will make it far more difficult to fulfil the requirements for patients that need a female nurse (for whatever reason)?

What is the benefit to having a 50/50 split between the sexes? I remember we seeing that ages ago when I saw NHS bosses planning to try and increase the number of male nurses - why?

If men are naturally not that interested in the profession and most women don’t want a male nurse, why change things which will definitely it worse for female patients? Most men are happy with a female nurse, I see little push from that direction so why?

Are you talking about bio sex or gender...confused.

@Babdoc

I understand that situation and sometimes it is very difficult to engineer a staffing group of one gender when resources are extremely stretched. We have faced situations where patient safety may have been marginally impacts by the refusal of patients to be seen from a person from the opposite gender. I think there is an awareness of patient sensitivity but also of overall safety.

I don't wish to come across as insensitive but we have major gender inequality in nursing for example and if we win to have a 50/50 split in nursing gender then inevitably there will be more men working on wards and interacting with female patients. Is this a bad thing or should we not address gender inequality within some staff groups?

One thing I have noticed and I think this is from a historical perspective of the NH S is that when it comes to consultant then you get what your given in terms of gender as consultants are very busy people not great in number. There then seems to be some partial acceptance of gender selection from a HC P when it comes to other roles.

I'm GC - I've had a male GP do one of my smears years ago, I had a male midwife at one stage during DC's birth (I was ask if I was OK with a man and said yes) had a C-section performed by a male surgeon and a male anesthesiologist plus male Dr's at various stages of infertility investigations & IUI/IVF procedures but I always consented to a man in those cases. I have in the past requested a female healthcare professional and I would be bloody furious if I requested a female and was given a TW. In most cases I'm happy to be treated by a man but I know that this is not the case for all women and on the occasions I have asked for a woman it has been because I wanted someone who had the experience of the vagaries of womb ownership rather than man who feels like a woman.