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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Will smears be done by men/TWs in future?

137 replies

WeepyWillow · 28/02/2023 13:30

I had a smear test this week. The female nurse asked whether I wanted a chaperone in the room with us.

Bemused, I asked what she was on about. New policy apparently. Previously, if a male medic is performing an intimate examination the (female?) patient is offered a chaperone. But now, For Equality, the offer is made to all irrespective of sexes involved.

Is this to pave the way for TWs doing smears? Will the offer of a chaperone be to cover the NHS back?

I know from breast examinations that a female is always in the room when a male doctor examines. They don't even ask you, the team of two will be in the room. For mammograms a female x-rayer is guaranteed. But what might that mean in future?

On the one hand I think, don't be so ridiculous Weepy, it'll never happen. But on the other...

At the moment I can ask to see a female GP, no problem. For most complaints the sex of the doctor is irrelevant but sometimes I feel more comfortable talking to a woman. Might I lose that option in future?

OP posts:
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Appleypie · 07/03/2023 21:17

MammogramResults · 07/03/2023 14:13

I'm just having a late lunch. Cheese and salad....but no lettish I mean lettuce. Darn! No fetish I mean feta cheese either.

Stuff it I'll just have toast

😂😂😂

MammogramResults · 07/03/2023 16:26

Images, not issues!

MammogramResults · 07/03/2023 16:22

nofluffsgiven · 07/03/2023 14:34

Is it any different to having male gynaecologists? I've had a few vaginal exams during child birth and I have to say that the men were far more gentle and took more care, not to mention far more efficient at doing the job. I had one young midwife try to do something down there and she jabbed a pipette of numbing gel that was supposed to be going inside, into my labia and I shot up the bed in pain. The fact people can qualify as midwife and not be able to find a vaginal opening is quite scary. So yeah, it doesn't matter what sex or gender the professional is, the important thing is that they're professional and know what they're doing.

Completely different.

I love my male gynaecologist . He knows all the ins and outs of my reproductive system. He raves about the time he spent three hours fiddling around inside my womb, insists on drawing it for me every time I see him in person (apparently it's rather impressive from a medical point of view, although I've only got his word for it). I trust him 100% to only be interested in doing his job. And I say this as someone whose GP, who also did internal exams on me as a teenager, was done for thousands and thousands of child sex abuse issues.

But a man who's that mentally ill he expects me to validate his delusion that he's a woman? Or worse one who doesn't believe it and well I don't want to think about why he's chose that as a profession.

You never actually know the motives for men in medicine who chose to examine women's privates as part of their job.

But I know which men will instantly raise red flags.

OttersMayHaveShiftedInTransit · 07/03/2023 15:03

If a woman asks for a female healthcare professional/carer she is not unreasonable to expect to get a female not a man who feels feminine. Whether she is my 89 year old maiden aunt, my 14 year old goddaughter, my Muslim colleague, my Jewish neighbour or my abuse survivor friend each of them has their own reasons for not wanting intimate procedures carried out by a man. Those women (including me) who are happy to be treated by a man won't request a woman but when women do ask for a woman that is what they should get.

TimeForThunder · 07/03/2023 14:50

lipstickwoman · 28/02/2023 14:21

It matters less what gender the health professional is than their professional behaviour.

"It matters less to me, personally what gender the health professional is than their professional behaviour."

Fixed for you.

Hooklander · 07/03/2023 14:40

nofluffsgiven · 07/03/2023 14:34

Is it any different to having male gynaecologists? I've had a few vaginal exams during child birth and I have to say that the men were far more gentle and took more care, not to mention far more efficient at doing the job. I had one young midwife try to do something down there and she jabbed a pipette of numbing gel that was supposed to be going inside, into my labia and I shot up the bed in pain. The fact people can qualify as midwife and not be able to find a vaginal opening is quite scary. So yeah, it doesn't matter what sex or gender the professional is, the important thing is that they're professional and know what they're doing.

Yes it is very different. I don't want a man who is cos playing being a woman carrying out an intimate procedure on me, whether I'm awake or unconscious, using my body and my presence as a prop to validate his current pretence.

My gynaecologist btw is male and he doesn't pretend he's anything else. I think that's a minimum professional courtesy.

nofluffsgiven · 07/03/2023 14:34

Is it any different to having male gynaecologists? I've had a few vaginal exams during child birth and I have to say that the men were far more gentle and took more care, not to mention far more efficient at doing the job. I had one young midwife try to do something down there and she jabbed a pipette of numbing gel that was supposed to be going inside, into my labia and I shot up the bed in pain. The fact people can qualify as midwife and not be able to find a vaginal opening is quite scary. So yeah, it doesn't matter what sex or gender the professional is, the important thing is that they're professional and know what they're doing.

SiobhanSharpe · 07/03/2023 14:32

This is germane as far as I'm concerned. I would not consent to be part of anyone's 'validation' and I would be extremely wary of any HCP who does not seem to deal in biological reality.
I would question their training and professional competence if they insisted they were now the sex they said they were, despite evidence to the contrary, and especially if there was any attempt to gaslight me over the matter.
That's what the problem is.

MammogramResults · 07/03/2023 14:13

I'm just having a late lunch. Cheese and salad....but no lettish I mean lettuce. Darn! No fetish I mean feta cheese either.

Stuff it I'll just have toast

IcakethereforeIam · 07/03/2023 14:04

The deleted post would have explained everything, @Appleypie used lettuce as a substitute for a different word which sounds similar but starts with an 'f'. Got a dressing down.

StarsAtElbowsAndFoot · 07/03/2023 13:37

Is it just me who is lost with the salad references? 🙈 I didn’t see the deleted messages so perhaps that’s why

MammogramResults · 07/03/2023 10:08

Right have had the pleasure of a smear this morning.

The woman doing it asked, unpromted, if I wanted another person there. So I asked her and she said they HAVE to ask and have done for a long time. She said it was all about ensuring the patient is happy.

I didn't delve further as by that point I was naked from the waist down and had other things on my mind!

I don't remember her asking three years ago, but thinking on today's conversation leading up to her asking, it was a very familiar conversation so she probably did ask last time.

And as to the original question of whether TW will be doing smears in future. I'm sure of one thing, women can do my smears, actual male gynacologists/doctors/nurses can do my smears, but I'm afraid if I'm ever expected to have one done by a man pretending to be a woman they can fuck off to the far side of fuck! Call me transphobic for that if you wish but I'm absolutely not being a part of someone else's internal mental crisis, whatever it's cause. whether that be because they are so far removed from reality that they truly believe you can change sex, or for tossed salad reasons! Or anything in between.

Appleypie · 05/03/2023 20:38

Thanks for all the salad leaf appreciation and apologies for the inadvertent derail 🥬

redbigbananafeet · 05/03/2023 19:38

RichardBarrister · 04/03/2023 21:56

When was Valerie Kneale's killer identified?

I’m not sure of the dates of arrest/charge etc but

“A healthcare professional (Hernando Puno), has been arrested on suspicion of murder, rape and sexual assault following a police investigation at Blackpool Victoria Hospital.

A spokesman for Lancashire Police said the man was in custody after being arrested on suspicion of murder, two offences of rape and one offence of sexual assault.

The arrest was made as part of a murder investigation into the death of Valerie Kneale, 75, from Blackpool, who died from a haemorrhage caused by a non-medical-related internal injury.

www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20220105/2822094241985

I can’t find an update about the actual hearing.

www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/blackpool-hospital-carer-kissed-women-26154811

The lady that died wasn't one of his victims was she?

WeepyWillow · 05/03/2023 18:56

@Appleypie tsk tsk lowering the tone with saucy salad references. No wonder the mods are on your case 😉🤣

OP posts:
Helenloveslee4eva · 05/03/2023 14:45

Chaperones in hospital clinics are normal. So not Mal you don’t notice them - a nurse pottering around passing notes , lining up exam couch etc and happening to be there when a procedure is done.

in gp land there aren’t the spare people but everyone should be offered a chaperone for an intimate examination and probably for all physical exams. It’s just good practice and cqc likes it.

im a female HCP. I won’t examine a gent without a chaperone , and I offer all women for intimate exams ( even though the response is uh of course not ) .

My own ( male ) Gp got a chaperone to examine my knee . As I’d turned up in shorts anyway this seemed overkill 😂. I suspect new policies 😂

MammogramResults · 05/03/2023 14:26

Seriously again!@Appleypie 💐 I'm having lettuce for my lunch! (Kidding nothing so healthy would ever pass my lips)

Appleypie · 05/03/2023 14:24

Thanks @IcakethereforeIam

Whenever I see a deletion message, I always think ooh they must have written something really juicy. Well, now I know!

An explanation would still be nice @mnhq

IcakethereforeIam · 05/03/2023 14:19

I wonder if your post was reported because of the.....substitutions. fwiw I thought your post was entirely reasonableFlowers I'm glad I managed to read it.

Appleypie · 05/03/2023 14:16

IcakethereforeIam · 05/03/2023 13:20

@Appleypie looks like salad is also off the MN menu!

Omg! I'm sorry MN but wtf?!?!

OK, you got me. Do it to Julia, as a clever man once wrote. TWAW, have it your way.

Ffs. This has really pissed me off! I've never been deleted before!

IcakethereforeIam · 05/03/2023 13:20

@Appleypie looks like salad is also off the MN menu!

Whiteroomjoy · 05/03/2023 11:58

Sadly I have way more issue with a transwomen doing my smear than a male GP

imhe, going back to 80s and 90s most of my smears and breast examine were performed by male GPs as nurse clinics were not an option available to many at time. My gynae appointments and exams including child birthing were mostly male doctors.

I felt most male GPs weren’t exactly thrilled by doing smears back then. A few were shit at it and hurt me, or seemed to take hours to find my cervix so experience as to go to female gp as much as possible who sort of understood how painful or uncomfortable it could be if not done properly. I was astonished by one female gp who was in and out in less than a minute once. When I said it was so quick she looked confused and then laughed and said “ well it’s not like they wander off”

But, I thought, even back then, that it was a bit weird how many male doctors wanted to make their life’s work about women’s reproductive organs and genitalia and specialise in gynae . Still leaves me questions as to why, frankly…but beggars can’t be choosers . Yep, I know it’s sort of academically interesting but we’re At receiving end of decades of ignorance and neglect around gynae problems because male gynaes didn’t listen. It takes a pretty arrogant man to think he’d be massively beneficial to his patients to specialise these days.

so, male nurses doing smears . Outside of emergencies. Nope. Don’t trust them to find my wandering cervix. Don’t trust them to have any idea of what discomfort they can inflict on my vagina and cervix

And now they suggest we accept a male nurse doing it whilst in “ girl” mode…nope. The arrogance of that individual in trying to tell me that , based on their appearance, I must consider them a biological women, is so breathtaking, it means they’re the last person I want doing any sort of intimate exam on my body. They just don’t understand even the most basic fundamentals of what being female is, despite all the nursing duration on sex based physiology they’ve had. I would expect a caring, compassionate nurse , who happens to be a transwomen, to respect patients boundaries and simply ask and accept a no, if given, with understanding and acceptance…as I think most male nurses would.

i have no issue, in theory, with a transwomen nurse doing bloods, dressings, tests, and all the many other non intimate tasks they’re needed to do these days. But if they’re dressed or come across as a “ performative “ “ look at me womanising” that is a merest whiff of overt sexuality, I’d be telling them that I’m not consenting to participate in their sexual fantasy and asking for someone else.

PorcelinaV · 05/03/2023 11:32

mids2019 · 05/03/2023 11:05

TW do work in hospitals and are probably attracted to a caring 'female' profession where gender neutral uniforms are the norm and recruitment policies the norm. I don't think it would ever be highlighted to a patient as misgendering another staff member would be a potential disciplinary offence.

I think the OP does have a relevant question (but I would imagine a rare occurence). I don't know how you could write into policy that a TW needs to reveal their sex status to a patient so I think this a challenging picture.

I think you need a good lawyer to draft person specs for jobs that would specify born sex rather than gender?

I see your point, but they could at least easily have a policy of where someone requests a "woman" or "man" that this is assumed to be biological sex and so trans people are excluded.

Appleypie · 05/03/2023 11:10

I think you need a good lawyer to draft person specs for jobs that would specify born sex rather than gender?

I thought the law as it stands allows for that.

mids2019 · 05/03/2023 11:05

TW do work in hospitals and are probably attracted to a caring 'female' profession where gender neutral uniforms are the norm and recruitment policies the norm. I don't think it would ever be highlighted to a patient as misgendering another staff member would be a potential disciplinary offence.

I think the OP does have a relevant question (but I would imagine a rare occurence). I don't know how you could write into policy that a TW needs to reveal their sex status to a patient so I think this a challenging picture.

I think you need a good lawyer to draft person specs for jobs that would specify born sex rather than gender?