Idea to solve the toilet/changing room 'problem'

You can't really 'vote with your feet'. Sometimes when you have to go, you have to go!

How about men don't behave like entitled dickheads and they stay out of our spaces?

This is basically what we’ve got right now though. Choice. Any business can insist on sex based segregation for changing rooms and toilets etc.

Segregation by sex and female categories were only introduced because women are judged less favourably than men, even when they are as good or better than men at something. It simply isn’t the case that the person, who gives the best argument or the person/ people, who shout loudest get what they want. The lone male voice / opinion is listened to over hundreds of women. Look what has happened to the Brit awards.

I don’t see how it will be possible to get people, who’ve made up their mind to engage open-mindedly in the process and want to give up their time to openly explore what works best for their businesses / services. I truly don’t believe a lot of people would engage in the process at all. How many times was Nicola Sturgeon asked to engage with women’s groups? And even when she finally agreed to do so, I don’t think she ever did. Is that correct?

Even if say one in 5 agrees to use the sex based model, there’s still an accessibility issue. Distance to said business / service, access for disabled people, timings, which correspond for people with differing needs etc.

Then there are public services like the council and the NHS. No one can self-exclude themselves from the NHS for emergency treatment and most cannot pay for private treatment.

So which interest groups do single sex toilets not serve @VoodooQualities ? With single sex spaces everyone gets treated exactly the same so who dies this not serve? What about all existing facilities? Surely to avoid confusion, as it would be too time and cost consuming to change all those, its better to stick with single sex. That way no one can claim they got confused about which toilets they were meant to use can they?

So honestly who does this proposal of yours benefit?

It's just males. Males who want to impose themselves on women.

There are so many inequalities that women face that society has no interest in addressing. The way menopause is brushed off for example, the fact that cars are designed for male bodies, etc, etc.

Yet women are supposed to negotiate away from our single sex spaces?

I used to think we should 'be kind' until I opened my eyes to what the end game is for TRAs. Now it's a hard no. Not ever.

We can obviously choose which restaurants/pubs to go to, but how much choice is there over toilet facilities in workplaces, any public places such as car parks or libraries, or limited facilities per town like cinemas or sports centres, conference facilities, theatres etc.

No, we need a socially accepted standard so people can use facilities without worrying or lots of planning to check in advance.

I don't think it's bending over backwards to listen to everyone and then balance needs (and wants).

Yes. Listen to everyone. And provide what all groups need.

This will need to mean two things.

1. More and additional facilities to add diversity

2. Men accepting that their want to get in female spaces whether or not females consent is bloody awful exclusionary and dominant behaviour and they do not need to do this, and they do not matter more than females needing access to single sex facilities.

Women losing access to make men happier is NOT an end point to this. Ever.

Single sex don't work for people who's opinion I no longer respect

Great post from @GailBlancheViola . I would add that there is often benefit in women / girls having a collective space. Eg to ask for advice or help in shaking off a male who is pestering them, or to ask for support in facing up to anticipated harassment. This is especially true in schools. The creation of unisex toilets, albeit with floor to ceiling cubicles has removed the one place girls could be together away from the male gaze and endless bloody comments on boobs, virginity, periods, sexual availability et etc

Transwomen want the validation of going where women are. And they don't seem to give a shit about how women feel about it. Single sex and disabled is all you need.

Ha ha, your bias on this issue is very clear. So no thank you.

Women don't need these changes, there is no need for the consultation.

There was a consultation done by the Department of Levelling Up, Housing and Communities in 2022 this was said by them on the 4th July 2022:

All new public buildings should have separate male and female toilets, the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities has announced today (4 July 2022).

The approach will mean women, who may need to use facilities more often for example because of pregnancy and sanitary needs, have appropriate facilities.
The move follows a call for evidence which gathered a wide range of views, including from pregnant women, older people, disabled people and people who come under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

The rise in ‘gender neutral’ toilets raised safety concerns from women who feel they are losing privacy and being unfairly disadvantaged.

Separate unisex (or universal) toilets should be provided if there is space, but should not come at the expense of female toilets.

A consultation will be launched in the autumn, which will also consider the design of unisex self-contained cubicles to maximise privacy and whether improvements to disabled persons toilets should be made.

The changes will be made through building regulations and guidance.

Disabled toilet provision will not be affected by the changes.

Minister for Equalities Kemi Badenoch MP said:

It is vital that women feel safe and comfortable when using public facilities, and that their needs are respected.

These changes will ensure that separate toilets for men and women are preserved at the same time as providing universal toilets for those that want them. This is a common sense approach.

The overwhelming response was for separate male and female toilets and for them to remain absolutely, without exception, single sex. So there you go @VoodooQualities your questions have been asked and answered, what needs to happen now is implementation and strict adherence.

Where I work we have 3rd space mixed toilets and singe sex toilets. It has not become an issue yet because even though there are quite a lot of trans folk they are actually decent people and don’t behave in a self centred way and just get along with their lives.

Or , here's a better idea, keep facilities single sex.

All of this bending backwards to give males what they demand is ridiculous.

This has nothing to do with needing to pee and everything to do with male entitlement.

if it's simply impossible to have guidance that takes all needs into account (because the needs are mutually exclusive) then so be it.

No, that is exactly the job of guidance.

All needs must be taken into account.

It is reasonable to provide additional gender neutral provision for male people who do not want to use male spaces and state they feel unsafe there, and for female people who do not want to use female spaces/have changed their appearance to the point that confusion and difficulties may arise. It's not easy, but yes, it can be done the same way that creating accessible toilets was initially not easy.

What is not reasonable is male people refusing to permit female only spaces to exist because they don't want them to. And that must be dealt with by law if need be, the same way that law would have to deal with able bodied people excluding disabled people because they didn't want them to have a space.

The want is mutually exclusive with the need .

Just accepting that some women are going to have to lose equality and access so men get happier self expression and freedom? No. Absolutely fucking not.

The way to solve it cheaply is to stop regarding males as caged tigers waiting to pounce on anyone who doesn’t look like He-Man venturing into their space.

If they made the men’s lavatories mixed sex and kept the women’s restricted to natal females only, it would solve the problem.
That idea has been rejected many times. Evidently, the problem is not non-binaries and transwomen “just wanting to pee”.

I briefly worked in a school with mixed-sex toilets for staff. I 'chose' to not visit again by cancelling my bookings. It was a nice school but I didn't like being in a cubicle next to a man I only knew because we worked in the same building. I have no idea whether he hated the provision or enjoyed listening to me pissing, but I didn't enjoy the experience and voted with my feet.

It’s not complicated.
You use the facilities for your biological sex.
You do not use any facilities that exclude you based on your sex

People in car accidents can just choose not to go to hospital.