Idea to solve the toilet/changing room 'problem'

Agree.
We looked at secondary schools last September for youngest DD (who in the past has had various medical devices eg Hickman lines).

We walked into one and left within ten minutes as DD burst into spontaneous tears having clapped eyes on the lavs.

Brand new building and the wall between the corridor and the cubicles was all glass, like a shop window.
Row of cubicles on one side marked M, row of cubicles on the other side marked F - central sinks with no mirrors so girls washing hands would look directly at boys washing hands in the opposite sink.

She has so much body horror due to being a childhood cancer survivor the disregard for any sort of privacy or dignity gave her a PTSD-like response.

We’ve applied for our nearest all-girls non selective school but it’s oversubscribed.
National offer day is Wednesday - keep your fingers crossed for her please wimms?

The below is taken from this and I have added some personal bits:

www.wcportables.co.uk/blog/why-public-toilet-doors-do-not-reach-the-floor/

Some reasons why public toilet doors do not reach the floor

1) Ideal in cases of emergency: The gap could help other users notice someone who has collapsed or fainted in an enclosed stall. In these circumstances, a toilet user or a member of an emergency team can squeeze through the gaps to provide help to the affected individual. It could be the difference in a life-threatening situation.

My friends and I saw an arm sticking out the door gap in a nightclub. My friend shimmied over the top. There was a girl in there grey coloured, covered in vomit and unconscious. We moved her so the door could open (inwards) and called an ambulance. It happened so quickly and never thought about it until my own child went to university.

There are hundreds of thousands of epileptics in this country whose seizures aren’t controlled by medication. Sometimes people feel ill before a seizure, sometimes not and wouldn’t have no time to pull a cord.

2) The overall cost is cheaper. Designing and constructing a door that extends to the floor might cost more. This could be due to the complexity of the design, material and labour hours. This may explain why some management teams opt for toilet doors that have a considerable gap from the floor.

Also means the doors don’t get jammed as they warp.

3) It makes cleaning easier: Cleaners can easily extend the floor mops into the stalls without having to open the doors. They can also evaluate the state of the toilet via the gap between the floor and door. It saves cleaning time and encourages frequent or a short interval cleaning routine.

They can get to all crevices, particularly with all sorts of fluids not encrusting the door.

4) Faster escape of bad odour: Toilet is a natural environment for the release of bad odour. The gap between the door and the floor provides a quick escape of the foul smell that was generated by previous users.
It helps your toilet experience to become bearable. Without the gap, the odour is sustained in a stall and becomes unbearable to subsequent users

5) Easy to determine availability: The uniqueness of modern-day toilet locks can make it quite hard to tell if a stall is empty. As some toilets use a green indication for a vacant facility and red for those occupied. Nothing beats the eyes test of glancing through the gap for any sign of occupancy.

As an ex-teacher I used to do sweeps of the toilet blocks. If a cubicle was locked, I gave a

shout then looked under the gap. What would I have done in a real emergency with a locked full-length door? I don’t know

6) Ensures the toilet queue flows: Toilets with doors of this nature could negatively impact people’s privacy. When individuals sense others can listen to their business that easily, they are prone to wrap up quickly.

7) Reduced bad toilet habits or behaviours: As we have earlier indicated, raised toilet doors can limit the privacy of users. With this in mind, people will refrain from exhibiting poor behaviour. The embarrassment of being spotted acting inappropriately will ensure people err on the side of caution.

It was documented and discussed that there one as least one rape per school day in U.K. schools reported (Parliament and BBC article). As a teacher I am shocked but wondered where these can happen. Obviously anywhere that decreases visibility increases the chance of bad things happening - particularly if it’s mixed sexed toilets so each sex has a reason to be there. Also drug taking.

Adrian Chiles did an article in the Guardian about how much he liked the new gender neutral toilets with their full length doors. This was due to it being a much nicer experience for him to sit down poo in peace as he was traumatised by children looking over at him at school when he was on the toilet. He suggested piped music to make the experience even better. Obviously hadn’t even crossed his mind about the very, very good safety and hygiene reasons for toilets being designed as they are.

Link for rapes in schools evidence:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34138287

This is not a problem without a solution though. More cleaners, ought to do it. I have no issue with creating more jobs paid for out of my taxes (or just paying 20p to have a wee and paying them out of that).

Yet more money being spent on something of no benefit to women!

Still a hard NO from me.

Such good points there.

I'd forgotten about that. Eminently sensible guidance. Gives the lie to the pretence that there's some massive groundswell of opinion opposing single sex toilet provision, or thinking it's outdated. Let's cross our fingers regarding implementation.

So if your daughter is a transman, surely they would be perfectly happy to use male facilities? If not, isn’t that hypocritical? So demanding females share spaces with males but not prepared to do that themselves. It is so fucking annoying. Either you’re a man and use male facilities or you’re a woman and use female facilites. Same goes for the the whole #bekind huns. If you wanna share facilities with men, off you pop and use the mens and leave the womens for those of us who want single sex spaces. There you go, I’ve solved the problem with no expensive consultation and changes needed.

The thing is, male and female spaces are gender neutral and always have been. Gender, we are told, is an identity thing. There is no commonality of identity between people in the male loos - some trans people try and obfuscate that fact in order to justify their invasion of women' spaces, but it's important to see it for the bullshit it is. I have no commonality of identity with most others in the ladies loo - we just all use it because we are female bodied. Hence, there is no need for third spaces. There is, however, a need for some people to realise that the only people who are suggesting that using the male loos is an identity statement is themselves.

The road to hell is paved with good (automated toileting) intentions…

amp.lbc.co.uk/news/man-crushed-telescopic-urinal-london-dead/

God the lengths to which some posters would go to to appease males is astonishing.

Why anyone would expect business and local authority employers to spend £££ to give these males what they want is beyond me.

And I've cleaned loos in my time ancientgran to supplement my student finances. Men are definitely not as hygenic as women.

@ancientgran , I only use disabled loos if I really need it. Because of MS, I take ages in the loo but I prefer to leave disabled loos to people more disabled than me. What with them actually being the most marginalised in society.
If companies are willing to stump the cash and the space for lots of good sized fully equipped rooms for mixed sex toilet facilities as standard, keeping them clean , then fine.

Remember these godawful things?

SHUDDER.

Plain old cubicles with a gap underneath do exactly the same without the expense and complexity of electrics.

You unlock them manually within the 15 minutes.

They were designed in line with recommendations at the time; it's a newish building. Toilets that open onto a corridor allow for passive supervision of toilets in schools. Unisex is inclusive etc. I'd personally prefer sinks in the cubicles but having witnessed some childrens propensity for blocking plugs and leaving taps on at central sinks I can understand why they have opted for a central sink that can be covered by cctv.

Problem is some (boys I'm assuming) folk will happily pee all over the seat. So complaints and then they segregate by sex with some laminated signs. I don't think the problem is a bad design so much as some people are disgusting and who have no respect for others. Sadly boys don't necessarily grow out of this even after school so I'd prefer womens facilities where possible.

We have a newly built Tim Hortons or two near us with gender neutral loos. All proper rooms so no issue on the privacy front.

However they are utterly rank. Its really horrible to be in an eatery/food place and then go to the toilet and find they stink and the floors are covered in pee. Unless loos are cleaned after every man who goes in, they really need to stay single sex.

My stonewall-arse-licking employer has also converted some loos to gender neutral with full height partitions in the toilet room. Same problem there- I avoid them because guys can't aim and they are just grim.

Presumably you could use the disabled facilities. Oh no they aren't single sex are they.

Tech like this would be far more costly to implement and maintain than just adding an extra third single user space to the existing main male and female provison.

When the electric locks break on a train loo they have to take that loo completely out of service - hence trains having to have an old fashioned kinetic locking loo as well as electric one.

Can’t wait for all the ‘I got stuck inside a council loo when the electrics broke down’ compo face stories in local news papers 🙃

The fire brigade had to get me and DD out of a stick lift once, imagine the indignity of a fire truck full of chaps crowbarring the door open after you’ve done a big 💩

So ok, we have all these gender neutral toilets. Now what? How does this benefit women? What would be even better is sex segregated facilities. As some women for various reasons cannot share spaces With men how does this benefit them?

Its a lot of expense and throws up many new problems, just to avoid having spaces where women and only women can be.

Do men really think we are planning a revolution while washing our hands?

Rather than spending this much time and money trying to bend over backwards for men with gender feels, just think what we could achieve for women and girls.

If you were observed male at birth, stay the fuck out of women's spaces. Don't care how fragile you are or how much more makeup than me you are wearing.
If you are a transman, you are welcome in women's spaces. I'm afraid because of all the self ID bullshit by men you might get a few raised eyebrows but, as transpeople rarely pass as the gender they identify into, you'll be ok.
Nonbinary is bullshit. Read my first sentence and get the fuck over yourself.

Of course, it is for if someone passes out or needs help of some sort. I suppose some people would be happy if you died in there, as long as your the right sex of course.