Idea to solve the toilet/changing room 'problem'

I'm now personally of the opinion that services should be obliged, under new legislation, to provide single sex services alongside mixed sex services.

Yep. Ideally, proper primary legislation rather than a watered-down "guidance" document or even "statutory guidance". That way there is no chance of it being overturned by court cases. Single sex toilets are necessary, and recognised as such by the vast majority of people. If they want to shoe-horn in an additional requirement of new builds having at least one additional mixed sex toilet facility then fair enough. But it must be additional, rather than taking anything away from women.

God the entitlement of these males makes me sick.

It's nothing to do with peeing or being safe but everything to do with power and control over women.

As a poster called lemmein commented on another thread back in October:
If these magic locks on toilet doors prevent sexual assault and intimidation why can't TW just use the locks in the male toilets? 🤔

Agree, especially about the lockable spaces (CCTV in the open area won't pick an incident up immediately because no-one is watching the monitor 100%, or at all) but neither the lockable cubicles in unisex lavatories nor acceptance by men will satisfy TWs as they want to use the ladies for validation and (if they are that term I am not supposed to use, begins with 'a') also because it gives them a kick. But as CowboyHat says there are only c. 200,000, so why all this disruption?

A YouGov poll on 27th January 2022
showed that 87% of people wanted separate toilets for men and women.

52% of people wanted separate toilets for men and women

35% of people wanted separate toilets for men and women and a unisex toilet as well

only 7% wanted to just have mixed-sex or “gender neutral” toilets.

45% of people say they feel uncomfortable using a gender-neutral toilet in a public place.

(Source: yougov.co.uk/topics/philosophy/trackers/how-comfortable-brits-feel-using-gender-neutral-toilets-in-public-spaces)

The 2021 Census for England and Wales included a voluntary question “Is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?”. Overall, 45.7 million (94.0% of the population aged 16 years and over) answered the question. In total, 45.4 million (93.5%) answered “Yes” and 262,000 (0.5%) answered “No”.

As the vast majority of over 16s stated their gender is the same as their biological sex making sweeping changes facilities is not a proportionate response. We already have disabled toilets which are unisex.

(Source: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/genderidentity/bulletins/genderidentityenglandandwales/census2021)

Let’s not waste any more money trying to solve this non-issue.

I hate mixed sex floor to ceiling cubicles - they're always smelly (men don't want to aim), men often don't shut the door, just wander in and wee, and I just don't feel very safe, knowing there's massive, lockable rooms to shove people in all around me.

I think what should be pushed is tolerance - men need to welcome other members of their sex into their toilets - 'you can pee next to me' etc. rather than expecting women to put themselves at risk of additional male violence so that some males can avoid weeing in the mens.

The university I go to the gym at has 3 change rooms: men, women, and universal. In the universal room, nobody is allowed to change in the open and you have to use cubicles. This would be a great solution as a third space, except its existence doesn’t stop “penis-havers” from using the women’s.

Haven't time to RTFT but it's not always possible to vote with your feet if you want to access a service. I live fairly rurally and the two nearest public pools are both about ten miles away. If both went for 'gender' changing, that reduces choice to nothing.

I'm now personally of the opinion that services should be obliged, under new legislation, to provide single sex services alongside mixed sex services.

Absolutely this, Waitwhat.

That is the obvious solution but transwomen don't just want to pee, they want to be validated (and possibly get off) by being in a woman's space. So making male lavatories mixed sex won't wash - if it's mixed sex it has to be the women's. Problem is the EA2010 gave out gender reassignment rights without thinking about women and then tacked on a right to exclude TWs if the need was proportionate, instead of working from the opposite position, that TWs were excluded and some places might be designated mixed sex (I suppose?) as long as it did not adversely affect women.

And as we are seeing already, businesses and organisations are already not providing the single sex services that they can legally provide, leading to women self excluding from services they need because -

1. they are being advised incorrectly by political lobby groups with an agenda
2. they are setting policies from a 'before the law' stance
3. their funding is contingent on them excluding women who require single sex spaces
4. they are threatened and intimidated by TRA's when they do choose to offer single sex services as allowed under the EQA2010.

I'm now personally of the opinion that services should be obliged, under new legislation, to provide single sex services alongside mixed sex services.

You are trying to fix a problem that has already been fixed. We don't need to see if mixed spaces work. They don't. That's why we have the current provision, and that is why women who don't have access to single sex spaces are excluded.

We need established guidelines, you cannot leave it to individuals. And furthermore do you really think businesses and organisations need the headache of policing such spaces on top of their everyday business demands?
i think not!

What we have is not broken.

No, it doesn't. What about the female employees at such businesses, do they have to submit to the owner's personal belief system? Not everyone is in a position to pick and choose their workplace. We have single sex spaces for a good reason and that reason still exists.

Women are not a minority special interest group. They are half the population and always will be. We have male and female facilities for a good reason, that reason still exists. It exists whether you are black, white, disabled or whatever other category you choose to mention.

What exists works just fine and suits its purpose.

Provision cannot be an 'add on' extra for businesses. That is crazy.

Third space facilities are the only obvious solution, alongside the existing sex based provisions.

No. Doesn't protect women.

Umm no -

Anyone who has or has ever had a penis uses the toilets for the sex class of the penised, their identity is irrelevant.

And yes I agree with the @bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg women are not lesser un-penised people, that's quite the insult.

Toilet provision becomes:
Those who have a penis (however they choose to identify)
Those who do not have a penis have a vulva (ditto)
Those who have a penis but don't feel safe around others with penises

A woman is not defined by lack of a penis. We are not incomplete men.

I would welcome additional self-contained toilet provision that is large enough to take a parent with buggy and children or a musician with a double bass or a traveller with a huge suitcase, as long as it is in addition to the single sex loos and accessible loos that women and disabled people fought hard for.

Jfc, no.

Sex and genitals are intrinsically tied together barring some very rare exceptions.

Let's not complicate it, ffs.

Facilities divided, where important, by sex.

It's not difficult. Why is it made out to be so bloody difficult????

I'm strongly in favour of single sex spaces, but it's becoming harder and harder to fight for so I reckon we take it all back to basics and agree genitals don't define sex/gender....

Toilet provision becomes:
Those who have a penis (however they choose to identify)
Those who do not have a penis (ditto)
Those who have a penis but don't feel safe around others with penises.

Covers all bases and protects women

No solution that involves male born people (aka men) in women's spaces. Not even the gentle, fragile ones with nice hair.

I know no males, of any age from 8-80 who would be comfortable using mixed sex facilities.
The only males who would be ok with it are the sort of males who absolutely shouldn't be allowed in.

Mixed sex public toilets?

No, thank you.

Transgender women want to be in the women's toilets.
It's part of their fantasy- discussing lipstick and handing out tampons.

Because piss being splashed back onto a bloke’s slacks and then walked around his workplace indefinitely is better than mopping up piss from a toilet floor? 🤡

While that paint is interesting a targeted attempt to deter drunks from pissing up the walls of our high streets doesn’t seem at all suitable for the enclosed space of toilet cubicle - the splash back will get transferred to things the next occupant will touch, either on purpose, eg tap handles and the button on an air dryer or by brushing a leg against a toilet pan or an arm or bag against the wall

Some men do habitually sit down to piss, I hear it’s very common in Holland and Germany, but it’s seems utterly silly to expect all males to change their habits for the sake of mixed sex loos that most people, male and female, don’t want.

Plus urinals reduce physical footprint of the toilet area in a public building, lesson queuing time and are far more environmentally friendly than flush loos.

We can’t walk back on environmental progress for the sake of a tiny percentage of people who won’t accept that their sex is relevant to life, to law, to society.

Personally, I would much rather not be subjected to male piss smell, it’s just stronger and harder to eradicate than female piss smell, something that can be observed across the mammal kingdom. A public toilet can be perfectly clean and tidy yet the gents bogs will always smell worse than the ladies.

This isn’t something that chaps can do anything about and even if men’s loos are less messy (which I seriously doubt, although I’m sure the gents bins need less frequent emptying and are thus less likely to overflow) they still smell more.

Foisting mixed sex facilities on everyone is pointless because it will cost loads and make everyone less happy.

Just add a few extra single user spaces (big enough for parent and child together) and leave everyone else out of it.