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Original poster

the Sex topic on MN

140 replies

beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 09:45

I couldn't see a thread in FWR, though there are plenty in Site Stuff and AIBU. I thought it would be good to hear what women here think, especially about the safeguarding fails. MN hosting discussion of people graphically describing CSA and a 'sex chat' for people to find hook ups. Justine's response was to say that maybe they underestimated the negative impact, but they're going to carry on anyway. Posters who've reported threads and comments have been ignored.

I don't see how MN can keep going as a parenting site if it is failing on very basic safeguarding. Someone on another thread pointed out that sex forums at least have a bare minimum of safeguards, such as age verification, a list of banned topics, and active moderation (rather than the after-the-fact reports and deletions MN usually do.)

There are also concerns that it changes the nature of the people coming to post on MN and generally makes women less able to access the help and advice they need. I've noticed for a while that there's more victim blaming and misogyny in the relationships topic - apparently MN changed the posting rules last year so that new users only have to wait 7 days to post in the sex topic, where it was previously 90. So it's possible that the change there is related to that.

Sorry for the long OP! Just really wondering what women here think.

OP posts:
BordoisAgain · 25/02/2023 14:22

Ugh, there's even posters defending this shit and slating women speaking out about it.

Thelnebriati · 25/02/2023 14:19

All the above, and I'm really annoyed that feminism is still the board that's seen as a problem on Mumsnet. It all feels like mission creep. Mumsnet is losing what used to make it unique.

BoredOfThisMansWorld · 25/02/2023 13:50

Not seen the CSA one, and the sex board seems a really odd place for anything about that to be.

I sometimes lurk on the sex board, may have posted once or twice. Personally I'm as happy to read about rimming as I am threads about cooking meat or lip fillers. None of these are things I do but I don't want MN to only be for women with my precise habits and interests.

I do completely share concern over moderation and safeguarding however. I too have noticed the influx of really backwards thinking misogyny on the relationship board and that is a huuuuge problem. Imagine posting about an escalating DV situation and the first few replies were of that calibre. The OP might never return to the thread and miss life saving support.

I've not been massively monitoring it but my impression was that late evening posts got more misogynists. I'm afraid my bias shows here but I assumed them to be US* posters but perhaps it is just men from anywhere.

*I know there are lots of wonderful people in the US. It's just it seems as if there's no space for feminist thought there. You can only have Trump or hyper individualistic liberal, both of which are very misogynist.

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 13:47

Helleofabore did a breakdown of the history of the sex topic in one of the threads. I'll see if I can find it.

OP posts:
DysonSpheres · 25/02/2023 13:29

I am gobsmacked at this. I don't spend much time on MN anymore due to continual constriction of free speech and have FWR as my link landing page and only peek into Active or AIBU occasionally so this is news to me!

Just no. No. I don't understand when has 'hookups' been a thing on MN, why?

Women always did come on MN asking for sometimes explicit or odd sex based advice in the past (swinging advice etc) on general threads like chat. So was that the initial thinking behind a whole sex topic? What are the mods thinking?

CallMeVal · 25/02/2023 13:01

It’s a strange direction for the MN ‘brand’ to be heading in.

A couple of weeks ago, when the sex topic popped up in Active, I thought I was on the wrong site for a moment. Rimming threads and vibrator adverts. I mean…really?!

It’s all just a bit seedy.

Sex is everywhere on the internet. Pervs have got literally thousands of places they can go to get their kicks. Why is MN choosing to facilitate this? It’s pretty obvious the board is overrun with thirsty men and a few mentally unstable women. Very little of it is constructive chat.

I just don’t get it.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 25/02/2023 12:53

MassiveWordSalad · 25/02/2023 12:42

Many people do ask for advice about sex, but not in the sex topic because they're aware of the audience there. Women keep their genuine questions under the radar because of men. There are some men there who post that might be 'decent guys', but they still don't get that their very presence there is problematic.

Show quote history

Exactly. In one of Justine's replies, her argument was that women should have a space to talk about lack of sex drive etc. In my experience, posters tend to talk about that under the Relationships or Menopause topics. The reason for this is absolutely due to the fetishisation of the sex boards. Anyone who has had more than a cursory glance at them can see that.

MassiveWordSalad · 25/02/2023 12:42

myveryownelectrickitten · 25/02/2023 12:23

I don’t mind the sex topic, and it used to function as a place where women could as genuine questions about sex, including sexual problems, and also about sexuality - there’s nothing wrong in that! But previously you had to go and seek it out from the talk menu — much like the couple of other “hidden in plain sight” boards. Why can’t it stay like that? It would be no problem to reverse the change and “hide” it again so that it could go back to its original function.

Didn’t know there was a collab with Ann Summers. They’re ethically very problematic, and I don’t like the porn connections.

Healthy discussion about sex between women - great. Commercial links with porn and sex industry mongers - no thanks!

Many people do ask for advice about sex, but not in the sex topic because they're aware of the audience there. Women keep their genuine questions under the radar because of men. There are some men there who post that might be 'decent guys', but they still don't get that their very presence there is problematic.

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 12:24

It would be no problem to reverse the change and “hide” it again so that it could go back to its original function.

That's what Justine said they'll do.

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myveryownelectrickitten · 25/02/2023 12:23

I don’t mind the sex topic, and it used to function as a place where women could as genuine questions about sex, including sexual problems, and also about sexuality - there’s nothing wrong in that! But previously you had to go and seek it out from the talk menu — much like the couple of other “hidden in plain sight” boards. Why can’t it stay like that? It would be no problem to reverse the change and “hide” it again so that it could go back to its original function.

Didn’t know there was a collab with Ann Summers. They’re ethically very problematic, and I don’t like the porn connections.

Healthy discussion about sex between women - great. Commercial links with porn and sex industry mongers - no thanks!

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 12:17

I think her response is pretty good: taking the sex threads out of active, enforcing better safeguarding and boundaries, and considering the impact it's having on the whole site. However, she hasn't addressed the issue of the hook up thread or the depictions of CSA. I don't think she fully understands the safeguarding implications.

People have been cancelling their premium memberships and de-registering so I expect that this has forced MN's hand.

OP posts:
MassiveWordSalad · 25/02/2023 12:15

KohlaParasaurus · 25/02/2023 12:09

I will have immense respect for Justine if she produces an assertive reversal of a situation that should never have been allowed to arise. How did she think MN users would respond? I'd hate to leave the site, if only because there's nothing to match FWR anywhere else.

So would I, but I really don't think it's going to happen.

MassiveWordSalad · 25/02/2023 12:15

What part of the collab with Smilemakers and their encouraging sex after childbirth and 'vulva-havers' vocabulary made Justine think it was in the spirit of Mumsnet though??

KohlaParasaurus · 25/02/2023 12:09

I will have immense respect for Justine if she produces an assertive reversal of a situation that should never have been allowed to arise. How did she think MN users would respond? I'd hate to leave the site, if only because there's nothing to match FWR anywhere else.

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 12:07

According to Justine:

Something I want to put on record is that this decision to move Sex threads into Active conversations had absolutely zilch to do with the Smilemakers partnership. There was no pressure put on us to make this move and at no point in any thinking about this did Smilemakers come up. Over the years we've literally turned down millions of pounds from brands because we've categorically refused to engage in disingenuous marketing and/or take money from those brands which don't make parents' lives easier - I think we've shown that we're pretty good at resisting commercial pressure.

OP posts:
GingerAle1 · 25/02/2023 12:03

I came here to see if there was a thread

Quite honestly, it looks as if someone created a business challenge to turn a parenting site into a site about sex.

I was aware the topic existed but thought perhaps it was a hangover, as there are several sections that no one seems to know about. It looks as if they have seen sense though. Is Justine running several businesses? I am surprised by her comment on not fully understanding the issue. It seems like the sort of misunderstanding that happens when you are not really working in the business that bears your name.

OP posts:
mcduffy · 25/02/2023 11:57

I'm not renewing my premium subscription.
Is there appetite for a virtual walkout/day's boycott?

RainbowZebraWarrior · 25/02/2023 11:57

I see there has been another update from Justine on the site stuff thread (the one referencing the underage sex issue)

Thankfully, she seems to be seeing sense.

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 11:56

There's already a site-wide protest. I've been on MN for at least ten years and never seen people so upset. It's awful.

OP posts:
Tinysoxxx · 25/02/2023 11:49

This is a disappointment. The consequences will be felt across the boards as the influence filters into all the topics.

aweegc · 25/02/2023 11:43

Hooklander · 25/02/2023 10:30

Then suddenly [MN is] a sex chat site where men can come to get off with mums?

Given that there are so many more professionally run 'sex chat' and 'hook up' sites out there, what could possibly attract certain men to MN, a site with apparently fewer safeguards and where the vast majority of the women available for their attentions are likely to have children?

EXACTLY THIS.

X 100

I've posted with my other username on some of the other threads about this.

The idea that "just hide the thread" is the answer is sickening.

Next up there'll be a corner where the Webberly duo can ply their trade. As long as they pay enough commission. I'm not even joking.

I can't understand why someone with as much internet involvement as Justine must have, for years, hasn't understood that this is a major safeguarding issue.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 25/02/2023 11:42

Yes, the sex board reads like a fetishists wet dream. Blatantly obvious that most are enjoying displaying their kink publicly. It being in active means it now does so to people who don't consent.

Justine is being naive at best, here and disingenuous (if I'm being kind) at worst.

It's just another nail in the coffin really. We've witnessed how much women and childrens safe spaces have been eroded, invaded and trampled all over in recent years.

AnonymousHippopotamus · 25/02/2023 11:39

Good morning @beastlyslumber I just came to see if anyone had started a thread in here. The sex topic problems are a feminist issue and furthermore are going to have an impact on the entire tone, content and purpose of Mumsnet going forward. There are already some longtime posters who have de-registered and many others threatening to, and looking for other places to go.

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 25/02/2023 11:34

LoobiJee · 25/02/2023 11:28

Is that a direct quote from the sticky? How do they know posters are adults? It’s just an email address to sign up, isn’t it.

Seven days isn’t much of a disincentive to bad faith posters. I saw speculation on another thread that the change might be associated with an advertising campaign by a sex toy and underwear retailer.

Show quote history

It's not a direct quote but that's what it says.

They have no idea who's an adult or not. They have no idea who's a 'good faith' poster and who's an MRA or a predator or a perve.

Yes, they've done a deal with Ann Summers and the Shrek's Ear people. They haven't admitted that's the reason why they've made these changes, though.

OP posts: