Trans-males in female spaces

I've got fresh lime. Or squeezy lemon shaped bottle of lemon juice

Mmm! Many transmen 'pass' enough to cause some anxiety response in women.

So, whilst I acknowledge they are female, my answer is no. Transmen do not get automatic access to all female spaces.

But I work for a crisis centre and the few transmen we have had referred to us have understood the issues they raise and (unlike the few transwomen we have had referred) choose to use a nearby service that has a group specifically for trans individuals.

Public loos etc? Because of the actions of TRAs, Stonewall et al I have lost all patience and empathy and would probably object. If a person chooses to 'other' themselves to that extent then they have to expect to be treated differently. Regardless of sex.

It's really sad. There are several stages of surgery and while I can't remember the statistics, there's a fairly high chance of it all going wrong. There are women who were perfectly physically healthy, in their early 20s, who are now incontinent and using catheters and talking about having to wear nappies. It's scandalous.

Assuming your question is in good faith, and wondering why you're obsessed with where violence occurs, it seems yes:
www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/07/23/op-ed-trans-men-experience-far-more-violence-most-people-assume#toggle-gdpr

Fucksake.
You wonder why they bother.
What a palaver.
And can someone pass the slices of lemon for my G & T, please?

Female sex in places divided by biology so very obviously that's transmen welcome in female spaces. It's not hard. Try logical thinking, I recommend it.

The exception is doping in sports (so that's testosterone). Unfair advantage whatever reason it's done for.

If I saw them in the toilets I would probably just assume they were a butch lesbian, so no, it wouldn’t bother me.

I'd just make all male facilities "open" but I appreciate that probably wouldn't go down well with a lot of men, who want their privacy! My priority is that women have a space they can go to feel safe, and if there is a genuinely passing transman present (a tiny minority but still), I don't think that quite works.

They are female and belong in female spaces.
They may still need to use the sanitary bins and some men may well object to females in males spaces.

If males in dresses 👗 are still male and should be in the male facilities then females in jeans 👖 are still female and belong in the female facilities.

We need men to start complaining about their spaces - imagine how quickly they would be listened to

@itsturtlesallthewaydown you didn’t ask how we would know they were female, you asked if we objected in principle.
There is no objection in principle as they are female.
If the system wasn’t such a mess there would also be no problem recognising that a transmale was biologically female, as transfemales would never have been allowed or encouraged to use female only spaces on the first place. We could then safely presume that all using female facilities were biologically female.

No, I've said on page one I think prisons and refuges are a different thing entirely.
And if a transman who passes (a small minority, I reckon) isn't happy to use male facilities then I wouldn't want them to feel forced to.

Men commit 98% of sexual crime and the majority of violent crime. I think they also pass far less well than they think they do, and i really dont trust their judgement enough. So no, I don't want males in women's spaces.

Completely happy to share spaces with female people however they identify.

Single sex in all its glorious diverse presentations.

No the reverse doesn’t apply - women in mens toilets are not a threat to men, men in women’s toilets are (there may the odd exception before you find one!)

I'm the mean Lesbian! I don't want any trans men ( aka women who want to be men) in my Lesbian social groups. If they hate being a woman and want to resemble a man hang out somewhere else.
As for bathrooms, if they pass no. Women are in danger from men. We don't need the anxiety.
I really don't care about the problems of trans people. I care about women.

I think most of us are perfectly happy sharing single-sex spaces with biological females, however they identify. There is a problem of course that if they look sufficiently male to pass, they may be challenged. But that is entirely a problem of their own making.

@Walrussy but would that not put them in danger? Would you put a female in a male psych ward? Or in a male prison? If TW are claiming they would be in danger in those spaces, surely females would be in even more danger no?

its very, very hard to change your physical appearance, the size of your hands and feet, the different proportions of shoulder, hip and waist, the leg bones which are shorter in proportion in women. Sticking a bit of facial hair on a born female body , even removing the breasts doesn’t really disguise the basic, instinctive identification. ( I am an artist, and life drawing really demonstrates these differences. Once seen, impossible to unsee).

This is something that I have discussed with a few friends before. It is always the m2f trans people that I read about bad experiences or being aggressive to let women speak demonstrations.

I have never read, experienced, heard or seen of anything similar and I know a few f2m trans people IRL.

Seemingly male privelege never goes away.

And would the reverse then also apply?

If a transman genuinely passes, I'd expect them to use male facilities, assuming they're happy to do that.