Girls' skirts policed.

If parents don't like the rules, find a different school. The comments about this being because male teachers can't control themselves in ridiculous, it's because no-one wants to see anyone else's underwear. At the school I teach at, we have a major issue with boys letting their trousers sag down so you can see the top of their underwear - when I tell them to pull their trousers up it's certainly not because I can't control myself looking at it.

They are having a laugh. There is nothing wrong with that. Even from that angle you can tell its not too short.

This is what the school deem an inappropriate skirt

From what I've read the school handling of it is awful and more same shit different day.

On the subject of the uniform itself, the students need to get on with life and wear the uniform.

he basically lives his whole life as if it were a PE lesson. He should be in joggers the entire time he’s awake, not stupid, uncomfortable, easily ripped pretendy office trousers
I agree with this and would happily see a school uniform that's more like a PE uniform, or something very simple, or get rid of it in favour of a dress code.
Sadly my concern is that even a dress code would prove problematic for the parents/students who think the expectations don't apply to them

rainford.org.uk/parents/uniform/

The Uniform List on that page was what I was looking at:

rainford.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Uniform-List-1.pdf

Maybe that's not the right website/page?

When I looked at the uniform policy it seemed that only ks4 girls can wear trousers.

I’m confused. I’ve been on their website and there is nothing about girls not being able to wear trousers. Additionally there are 3 stockists of the uniform.

While I am not a fan of giving girls red cards if they have their period, I notice that the article (and parents) seem to think a school's main job is 'care and nurturing' but their job is to educate their students. Having several students leave a lesson to go to the lavatory is disruptive, especially to explicit teaching i.e. the teacher is explaining what is being taught, going through examples and then getting the students to engage with this, work through examples or do the relevant tasks themselves etc. Breaks are for going to the toilet. What will these young people do when they have a job (like their women teachers!) where they cannot take a toilet break at will? ( NB A woman teaching in a class cannot usually pop out to change a tampon unless there is another teacher in the room.)

although I think they look like little undertakers.

🤣

yes, I’ve never understood why my lively and boisterous 8 year old has to go to school dressed as someone going to an office

he basically lives his whole life as if it were a PE lesson. He should be in joggers the entire time he’s awake, not stupid, uncomfortable, easily ripped pretendy office trousers

rant over

Absolutely agree. I tend to get them to agree that fully naked is not socially acceptable, then they have to accept that there does exist a line between acceptable and unacceptable. Then I say that when they're on my watch, it's up to me to draw that line in the sand (same as with hairstyles, jewellery, phone usage, language etc etc)

And/or I ask how they'd feel if I turned up to teach wearing their exact outfit, and their shudder of horror/disgust pretty much makes my point for me....

I always have very mixed feelings about this stuff.

On the one hand uniforms aren't always well chosen, especially if they cheap out. Although expensive is also not good so there is a conflict there.

And I wish they wouldn't present it as being a distraction for the boys.

But in a way that is actually the issue - women and girls clothing is sexualized, to the point where many girls and young women don't see it and and just think of it as "fashion". And that's not appropriate really, for them to have that unconciously thrust upon them, but it's also not great for the boys to receive the lesson that it's natural for girls to be sexualized in that way. And it's not just about them controlling their thoughts, the whole culture does it and they aren't incorrect to notice it.

As far as policing dress codes, it's fraught, and they are always going to have to generalize. I don't know about this element of separating them from boys in this case, I think some might feel it's better and more private, thought I'd want to have female teachers involved. The idea that being separated from the boys is traumatizing seems rather over the top to me.

I agree with most of what you said Mafelicent but we also have to recognise that teenagers will want to be sexually attractive - that's just nature.

As teachers, we need to hold the line on what is appropriate dress for the circumstances.

I always had a problem at school with the trousers we were made to wear. I'm just about above average height now but I was always tall for my age as a kid. The trousers we were made to wear were farrrrr too short for me and I'd get picked on for having "ankle swingers", a big social no-no at the time. I'd go to m and s with my mum and buy "long" trousers, which didn't show nearly an inch of my ankle and I'd get punished at school. My mum supported me but I always had the choose of either get picked on by students or picked on by staff.

Like with the skirts issue, the boys could wear whatever trousers they wanted... somehow it wasn't a problem for them... which does make it feel creepy and sexist.

If it really happened the way it's being told, the public segregation and humiliation is unacceptable.

I teach in a mixed school. Girls' clothing gets a wildly disproportionate amount of attention compared to boys'. But so many of the girls want to wear absolutely obscene "skirts" - essentially a band of elasticated material that often doesn't fully cover their bum cheeks. And non-uniform days/school trips, they want cropped tops, skin tight tops, boobs out etc etc. The boys wear t-shirts and knee length shorts/jeans/joggers.

I talk to the girls and the boys about this a lot. It's not right that we're battling with the girls on clothing all the time. But I don't see that solution is to let them wear (or not wear!) whatever they want and call that empowerment. To my mind, the solution is to keep pushing for this mythical, utopian society where young girls don't feel the need to dress for the male gaze in this way (I promise you - they're not doing it for comfort!)

Yeah it didn't make sense in the 1970s and 1980s it sure as hell doesn't make sense to police still growing, usually by inches seemingly overnight, school girls skirt lengths in bloody 2023.

And they wonder why girls suddenly want to be boys?. This shit! This is why!

Not a fan of school uniform myself but if you're going to choose to send your child to a school you need to abide by the policies of that school, and that includes the uniform one.

I do feel smart trousers and skirts/shorts should be an option for all. However we also all know that teens push boundaries, and they in turn need to know that those boundaries will still stay in place and applied consistently and fairly to all.

I'm not sure if the school has this on their website but a mannequin showing the required uniform, illustrating the length of skirt would be useful here so that both child and parent could be directed to it in the case of breach of uniform.

Someone up thread mentioned about staff sticking to similar rules. If staff are wearing revealing clothing that is inappropriate they should be reminded of the policy in their staff code of conduct.

Make uniform unisex. They claim to be a progressive school. Hideous.
What year 7 would wear a pinafore

I was 5' 8" at about 13, v skinny and all the school skirts available sat above my knee. I used to get regularly told off but there wasn't an alternative. I dread to think what they would be saying now and I can't imagine my parents would have been delighted with a male measuring my skirt length. I am surprised that isn't a safe guarding issue to be honest, in any other circumstance I can't imagine a professional male leaving themselves open to such interpretation?

And whilst I agree with standardisation to avoid people wearing trainers etc, I do think there is a very unrealistic work of what people wear to work these days. Most offices are far more relaxed.

People need to be taught to dress for the occasion. Oh and stop policing girls bodies would also be good.

If you’ve got a relatively small waist and a relatively big bum, skirts just work better than trousers. I really don’t think it’s fair to stop girls wearing them

just make them available for girls and boys

I think all uniforms should be identical and be only trousers in the winter. Knee length shorts in the summer and t shirts. Girls wearing micro mini skirts are ridiculous. It's unnecessary. Yes, it's down to the the boys not to be distracted, but we are talking about teenage boys and girls here with raging hormones. Let's not be disingenuous. There are better ways of policing this but I totally agree with no short skirts. I'm someone who did the skirt rolling up but only outside the school gates.

I do wonder what the PE kit is like at this school

I’m going to guess girls don’t get to wear leggings or joggers

if they do enforce netball skirts and PE knickers they really do need to have a good think

’you may not display your body except when ordered to’

seems a little erm, patriarchal, no?

I can remember kneeling down in a row with my contemporaries, whilst a (female) teacher measured the shortness of our skirts with a ruler. In the 60s.
I think they weren't permitted to be nine inches above the knee, maybe six.
We all rolled our eyes about it but felt it was a bit of a giggle against our ancient teachers.
Very different atmosphere in an all girls' school, as we didn't have obvious sex based different treatment (within the institution, anyway)
But this business about not being a distraction to the boys and male staff is just another male centred outrage.
Having said that, it was rumoured that one rather dishy young male teacher was instructed by our headmistress to keep his jacket on “in front of the impressionable girls”
The younger forms also had the bosom flattening tunics. We all had the hands inspections too, and were checked for make up, scent and holding our cutlery correctly.
It seems incredible now.

They're not running out of class. They're being lined up in a foyer, all the girls, waiting their turn to be inspected. Just the girls.