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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Evanna Lynch on JK Rowling

40 replies

saltedcaramelchocolate · 23/02/2023 09:29

www.telegraph.co.uk/theatre/what-to-see/harry-potters-evanna-lynch-jk-rowling-has-always-advocated-vulnerable/

"In 2020, Harry Potter author JK Rowling tweeted an article referringring to "people who menstruate” and wrote: "I'm sure there used to be a word for those people. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?”

Three days later - following an intervention by Daniel Radcliffe, the actor who played Harry Potter in the film adaptations of her novels - Lynch posted a lengthy response.

"I won't be helping to marginalise trans women and men further,” she wrote, adding: "I think it's irresponsible to discuss such a delicate topic over Twitter through fragmented thoughts and I wish Jo wouldn't… That said, as a friend and admirer of Jo, I can't forget what a generous and loving person she is.”

" I ask Lynch, as someone who loves people on both sides of the gender debate, if she is any wiser on how to bring the two together. She takes a big intake of breath.

"I was very naive when I was dragged into that conversation,” she said. "I didn't even know there were two sides. I had a view of, like, good and bad. I do have compassion for both sides of the argument.

"I know what it was like to be a teenager who hated my body so much I wanted to crawl out of my skin - so I have great compassion for trans people and I don't want to add to their pain.

"I understand being too triggered to be able to have a conversation. If you put me in a room with one of my doctors who treated me in the past, I'd kick off. I'd want to yell at them.

"I do also think it's important that JK Rowling has been amplifying the voices of detransitioners. I had this impulse to go: 'Let's all just stop talking about it' - and I think probably I'm a bit braver now about having uncomfortable conversations.”

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Abhannmor · 23/02/2023 18:47

Just googled Evanna . She is from Termonfeckin , County Louth.
All I know about that place is it was where the Irish Countrywomen's Association was Headquartered .
Hard to imagine them being ' captured'.

But then , Gaelic Sports are under siege so who knows.

TheMarzipanDildo · 23/02/2023 16:28

Newnamenewname109870 · 23/02/2023 16:11

Actually you can be more middle ground and not think everything is black and white.

I don’t dispute it. Although it is a bit of an all or nothing debate.

Newnamenewname109870 · 23/02/2023 16:11

TheMarzipanDildo · 23/02/2023 15:59

I suspect that she’s had a full change of heart but is being diplomatic. Not that you can be diplomatic with the TRAs- so many of them seem to think that JKR wants trans people dead.

Actually you can be more middle ground and not think everything is black and white.

Newnamenewname109870 · 23/02/2023 16:10

I love Evanna and personally find her really brave. It’s hard enough for people to say anything normally and yet she is in the public . When she didn’t immediately denounce JK she was trolled horribly.

TheMarzipanDildo · 23/02/2023 15:59

WarriorN · 23/02/2023 10:11

Haven't been able to read the full article. She sounds like she's completely convinced of JKs reasoning however, whilst maintaining a professional media shine (given the shit she could get.)

I still think mentioning detrans is v important. They deserve all the attention and support pride gives to others and yet are vilified. They unravel the charade for many which is why the TRAs are so keen ti dismiss them.

who exactly is the most vulnerable is a v good point to put to people.

I suspect that she’s had a full change of heart but is being diplomatic. Not that you can be diplomatic with the TRAs- so many of them seem to think that JKR wants trans people dead.

MenopausalMe · 23/02/2023 13:32

I thought it was a lovely thoughtful interview

namitynamechange · 23/02/2023 13:13

ChristinaXYZ · 23/02/2023 10:57

I thought good for her - she is thinking and developing and is repeatedly very kind about JKR as a person. I don't have to agree with everything she says. She is standing up in public in view of her woke colleagues and woke acting employers. I thought she has guts reading the interview.

And as to the number of times she uses I - she is being interviewed about herself not just about the GC stuff and why should she not. Men use I, I, I all the time - why, when a woman is interviewed, should she have to make it all about someone else or something else. She is entitled to her moment and to speak about herself most of all.

Its also a very good way to talk about ROGD. People can argue that she isn't a biologist, or a psychologist etc etc so how does she know that transition isn't the right thing. But she does know what it was like to be a teenage girl, and what it s like to grow into a woman and look back at yourself. I think most people on this board also know that. So she is 100% qualified to give her opinion on that (one of the times when "lived experience" is genuinely relevant).

latetothefisting · 23/02/2023 13:06

DarkOphelia · 23/02/2023 12:43

"The problem is that there’s a disagreement over who’s the most vulnerable."

No, there really isn't, Evanna. Not when you consider material reality.

Children under 11, the elderly and infirm, and the disabled are always the most vulnerable in any society.

I don't know how we got to the point where certain types of able-bodied adults became labelled as more vulnerable than individuals who cannot feed themselves. Or walk. Or talk. Or dress themselves.

But just the fact that you are disagreeing with her statement proves there is disagreement!

She's saying there's disagreement which is an objective fact.
She's not saying the disagreement is valid or that one/either sides view is justifiable.

DarkOphelia · 23/02/2023 12:43

"The problem is that there’s a disagreement over who’s the most vulnerable."

No, there really isn't, Evanna. Not when you consider material reality.

Children under 11, the elderly and infirm, and the disabled are always the most vulnerable in any society.

I don't know how we got to the point where certain types of able-bodied adults became labelled as more vulnerable than individuals who cannot feed themselves. Or walk. Or talk. Or dress themselves.

bringmethehorizontal · 23/02/2023 12:43

Evanna's always been more thoughtful than the others.

I'll never forgive Radcliffe's statement. Mansplaining little twerp. Makes me rage just thinking about it.

TheBiologyStupid · 23/02/2023 12:01

Agreed, Fukuraptor - it takes some courage even though the tide is now turning, especially for someone whose livelihood is in the (captured) arts sector. (Btw, you were right first time, it's "beyond the pale" - a pale being some kind of wooden fortification IIRC)

Fukuraptor · 23/02/2023 11:53

She's very thoughtful, even the first time around and more so now.

I think that's the thing I found hardest about all of the stuff around JKR, not that people disagreed with her or thought her mistaken (people often disagree about all sorts of things).

But that despite the ample evidence of her actions and views through the years and through her stories - people were so ready to believe utterly awful things about her and her intentions. They vilified her, ascribed views to her the complete opposite to those she had expressed and put her beyond the pale(pail?) of even being worthy of listening to and debating in good faith.

It has been pretty alarming, and as I read her say recently, a deliberate tactic to silence women who don't have her advantages.

I'm glad Lynch is speaking up for Rowling, I think it is the right thing to do but it does take courage to choose to enter/re-enter the fray. But it helps!

Horizons83 · 23/02/2023 11:40

I want to add something meaningful to this discussion, but now all I have in my head is the image of being bankrolled by dementors, which is making me giggle.

I think Evanna's comments the first time around were respectful and reasonable, and so they are again. She has behaved far more decently than any of the other young actors.

latetothefisting · 23/02/2023 11:33

BellatrixLestrangesHeatedCurlers · 23/02/2023 09:59

This has been out there for ages, no? Also a little (ha) ungrateful of her, given that Rowling basically hand-delivered her the role of Luna Lovegood after helping her through anorexia via letters. She owes more to Rowling than most of the cast and yet...

Where did you get that from? The article literally says that neither evanna nor jkr mentioned any connection during the audition process and she auditioned via an open audition. If you Google every other article shes done about how she got cast says the same thing!

SpottyBumPony · 23/02/2023 11:16

I think that's a brilliant statement 👏

Hoardasurass · 23/02/2023 11:08

@dimorphism we don't want them in slytherin
I always thought that she had tried (but failed) to walk a reasonable line between publicly demonising jk and supporting her as a person whilst disagreeing with her opinion in the clumsy way people in their 20s often do. She paid a high price for that attempt. However I suspect that with age, experience and talking to detransitioners she has come to realise that she is one of them only because she is that bit older she was caught in the social contagion of anorexia rather than that of ROGD. I have seen this happen in real life and it horrifies them just how close they came and completely changes their perspective on it. Having been through the tra/gc ringer already its extremely brave of her to come back and basically double down on team jk/gc and I applaud her for it.
This is how the golden bridge system works the first ones over are always the fence sitters and if they are seen to be supported and welcomed more will come over and start to bring the more entrenched then a trickle becomes a flood until all that is left on the otherside are the extremists who deserve everything that's coming to them.
We need more bridges it's how we win this

TheBiologyStupid · 23/02/2023 11:02

There's an archived copy here: archive.ph/UJ8S9

I thought it was a good article and wouldn't want to be too picky about the exact wording she used - clearly her heart is in the right place.

ChristinaXYZ · 23/02/2023 10:57

I thought good for her - she is thinking and developing and is repeatedly very kind about JKR as a person. I don't have to agree with everything she says. She is standing up in public in view of her woke colleagues and woke acting employers. I thought she has guts reading the interview.

And as to the number of times she uses I - she is being interviewed about herself not just about the GC stuff and why should she not. Men use I, I, I all the time - why, when a woman is interviewed, should she have to make it all about someone else or something else. She is entitled to her moment and to speak about herself most of all.

Forfrigz · 23/02/2023 10:47

It is a sick reflection of our society that we have conpetitions as to who is the most vulnerable.

Brefugee · 23/02/2023 10:46

“The problem is that there’s a disagreement over who’s the most vulnerable“

there is absolutely no need for a Most Vulnerable Olympics, and I'm sure people who live with disabilities are giving a hollow laugh when they see tripe like that posted.

Lynch has an interesting opinion. Given how she got the part, and the interest JKR showed in a vulnerable young woman, it is not surprising that she has come to realise the whole situation is much more nuanced than "everyone wants us to die, literal genocide"

AmuseBish · 23/02/2023 10:46

I can't remember much about HP plot - wasn't Snape, head of Slytherin, considered to be a mean nasty arsehole but he was still looking out for Harry all along, even though he didn't like him much, and even when it made him look bad/put him in danger?
I can't remember how it all ended so I'm not 'aligning myself with Snape' btw... nor am I bankrolled by the dementors or whatever it was...

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 23/02/2023 10:31

Agree that a few years on, she's standing firm on her original view and I'm so pleased she has in no uncertain terms made it clear she won't jump on the witch hunt bus.

Maybe she could have said more however I get the need in that industry to still want to protect herself from any backlash. As we know women who speak up don't get a pass Confused

I didn't know about her eating disorder. That must have been tough. But also gives credibility when she says she gets what it feels like to hate the skin you were born in.

Always bloody loved Luna. Wonderfully bonkers 😊

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 23/02/2023 10:27

ArabellaScott · 23/02/2023 10:01

Today feeling very very cross about the stupidity of the society that we have produced. I know I am lacking in empathy, compassion, and everything else and should be sent to the wall. Whatever!!!

Actually I'm annoyed at the pablum collective definition we are having foisted on us, of 'empathy, kindness, and compassion'. It's easy to chant trite mantras like 'be kind' and bang little hearts on everything and feel good about ourselves.

Empathy is hard. It can be painful to feel for others, if one is genuinely open to doing so.
Kindness is hard. It requires honesty, bravery and tenacity.
Compassion is hard. It requires forgiveness, and an abnegation of the self that is antithetical to a self-obsessed society.

What is happening is a general cheapening of kindness to mean 'saying nothing uncontentious' and 'avoiding conflict'.

Bullshit. Kindness in some cases means taking action, standing up in the face of authoritarianism, and sometimes means entering a fray.

Non-violence itself is misunderstood. It's very far from being the softy fluffy and easy option.

We need to discuss 'kindness' in terms of difficult moral questions, in the context of discussions on euthanasia, abortion, and other contentious and difficult issues. Not in terms of 'which colour flag do you want to wave today'.

Love this post. Arabella, thank you

SallyLockheart · 23/02/2023 10:24

“The problem is that there’s a disagreement over who’s the most vulnerable“

that is a vey important issue. The TRA lobby pedal the “most marginalised and vulnerable” in society line all the time. Ie no debate over that statement. They are not a homogeneous blob and while some are marginalised and vulnerable, many aren’t and in the meanwhile the rights of vulnerable women and the safeguarding of children have been swept away and trampled over

WednesdaysPlaits · 23/02/2023 10:20

dimorphism · 23/02/2023 10:13

I think Evanna is finding her inner Gryffindor now, and it's good to see.

Radcliffe and Watson are hereby relegated to Slytherin!

Given that Voldemort, Draco Malfoy and Bellatrix Lestrange have supported JKR throughout and its the weak trio of Harry Ron and Hermione who have criticised her I think you mean Evanna is finding her inner Slytherin!

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