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Times gender laws article removed

37 replies

BonfireLady · 23/02/2023 06:52

Did anyone see this article before it got removed? Normally the Times has been great at covering gender related topics so I was surprised to see it had been pulled. Is it available anywhere else?

Times gender laws article removed
Times gender laws article removed
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Original poster
BonfireLady · 23/02/2023 18:57

Urrgh. Terrible grammar. Multi-tasking while cooking dinner. Hopefully intelligible 😬🙃

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Original poster
BonfireLady · 23/02/2023 18:56

@JellySaurus and @IcakethereforeIam I agree it's very similar to other previous articles but I thought the use of dysmorphia was interesting. Particularly as the Cass Review talks about the important distinction between gender incongruence (more on the dysmorphia end of things) and gender dysphoria. Perhaps it's a prising open of nuances that allow for better discussion?
An adolescent who is presenting gender incongruous could be given access to talking therapy to understand why, without (I hope) the "conversion therapy" accusation.
Then maybe gender dysphoria can be looked at separately.

I still think both are mental illnesses and deserve compassion. I guess the logical goal of therapy for gender incongruence/dysmorphia is to help the person accept their body (e.g. puberty distress following trauma or linked to autism reaction to body changing).

Whereas the "goal" for the treatment of gender dysphoria is more open: from a "first do no harm" angle, it would be acceptance as above but if that's not possible then next would be "living as the opposite sex" (we're lucky as women that we can wear trousers etc without that even being necessary but sadly men who wear dresses don't get that acceptance), then as a last resort, hormones and surgery.

If it can be broken apart like this, the debate may be easier. Perhaps. It's clearly a charged subject no matter how you look at it.

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JellySaurus · 23/02/2023 15:59

IcakethereforeIam · 23/02/2023 12:48

Is there a difference between dysmorphia and dysphoria, I always assumed the former was a typo., but she seems to use them interchangeably.

I wonder if the article was pulled because of the second part, concerning the death of the baby. It seems that is litigation that is ongoing. I can't see anything in the first bit that I haven't recently read elsewhere.

I think that dysmorphia is a sense of unease with one's physical shape, whereas dysphoria is a sense of unease with an intangible attribute. So a gender dysmorphic girl might be deeply troubled by the physical changes in her body during puberty, whereas a gender dysphoric girl might be deeply troubled by the fact that she loves engines and does not know how to wear makeup and is judged for being like this.

FebName · 23/02/2023 13:26

Cailin66 · 23/02/2023 13:25

Is everyone able to open the 'archive' link because I am not?

I can. I'm on the iPhone App.

Cailin66 · 23/02/2023 13:25

Is everyone able to open the 'archive' link because I am not?

IcakethereforeIam · 23/02/2023 12:48

Is there a difference between dysmorphia and dysphoria, I always assumed the former was a typo., but she seems to use them interchangeably.

I wonder if the article was pulled because of the second part, concerning the death of the baby. It seems that is litigation that is ongoing. I can't see anything in the first bit that I haven't recently read elsewhere.

WarriorN · 23/02/2023 09:57

Thank you for the archive, odd it was pulled. Is about Irish laws though so perhaps something sensitive was said? It may come in a later edition?

Original poster
BonfireLady · 23/02/2023 08:38

A very interesting read. I wonder if it was just ahead of its time in the challenges it throws up? Perhaps we're close, but not close enough, to gender dysphoria being recognised by the medical profession as a mental health condition?
I've been doing a lot of research in this subject and what is being called out in the article makes a lot of sense from what I have seen.

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BonfireLady · 23/02/2023 08:24

@Genesis1v27 thank you!
Yes, very odd. It makes me wonder what's in it?! I shall have a read with a cup of coffee before work.

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Genesis1v27 · 23/02/2023 07:21

I found it had been archived here. Curious that it was removed from The Times website.

Original poster
BonfireLady · 23/02/2023 07:08

Sadly not. This is the field I'm particularly interested in (teenage girls with autism who present with gender incongruence/ROGD to be more specific) and this looks like it would have been an interesting read.

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Malariahilaria · 23/02/2023 07:05

I just searched for it in the times app but no joy. Did you get to read any of it?