KJK opposing fertility treatment for gay couples

@SapphosRock

If you are in a same sex relationship you cannot conceive naturally but that doesn't mean you have a fertility problem. You need to acquire the only thing that can make you pregnant, it's available to order off the internet apparently.

If the cruder method doesn't work then you can use ivf to conceive, and of course some women in same sex relationships also have fertility issues.

However at a basic level, a same sex couple is not infertile, they are simply engaging in a lifestyle that will not result in natural pregnancy. Having expensive medical care due to this choice paid for by scarce healthcare resources is always going to solicit negative opinions. Personally I'm uneasy with publicly funded ivf except in limited circumstances (eg harvesting prior to cancer treatment) but I know that my views aren't common (my own dp's dd was ivf)

It’s not the implication at all.

It’s what you’ve read into it based on your own pre existing beliefs.

I know someone will shout 'Having a child is not a right!' But I don't hear them shouting that to the straight women on the IVF board.

Well no, why would we? If someone came here and said that unlimited ivf attempts should be available on the NHS I think they would get that response.

It’s not an infertility issue it’s a not-wanting-sex-with-a-man issue.

Which is fair enough, no one here actually thinks women (or men) should have sex they don’t want. Certainly not against our sexual orientation, but not within it either.
We can’t expect the state to supply other people’s gametes to us though. That’s dystopian.

I agree.

The comment about "lie back and think of England" was made by one person and is not representative of the board or other posters on this thread.

I've read all 65 responses to her tweet @SapphosRock and I can't find one from you. Unless you're Derek?

That is not the implication at all.

No, it's not.
It's a statement of fact.
It's not saying that she should have sex with a man. Not at all.

Facts can be nasty and hurtful but that doesn't mean they're not facts.

Your inability to budge on this, your lack of any interest in the possibility other people may have a point puts you in that category of obsessed blinkered people I don't bother to engage with. It's a waste of breath.

You carry on weeping for your hard life. I'm past listening.

But you can't "try to procreate" together. It's not like a straight couple trying for years and not succeeding without IVF: that's a fertility issue.
A lesbian couple can use a sperm donor and one of them can give birth. That's not a fertility issue unless there are problems conceiving .
A gay couple (two males) can only use a surrogate or adopt. I used to be comfortable about surrogacy. I'm not now. A gay couple should adopt and give a family to a child that needs a loving home.

But neither of them need fertility treatment. They are both fertile.

Why the hell would the NHS spend money on treating people who are fertile?

Why would we spend money on a health intervention for people who are healthy?

I can't lay hands on a dr at the moment and I have an actual health issue that I cannot resolve without medical intervention. The drugs and tests are not available, I don't have the expertise, to treat myself without one.

I really resent your sense of entitlement to scarce resources to treat something you could sort out yourself.

I don't necessarily agree with everything she says, but KJK is right here. It's not a fertility issue.

So not having sex resulting in no baby...is a fertility issue?

Can you imagine 'Me and my wife have been trying for a baby for 20 years and nothing'...'Ok, how often are you trying'...'Every day'...'Oh, so you have sex every day?'...'Oh no we never have sex'. 'Erm...Oh boy'.

@SapphosRock if you are saying all lesbians are infertile and therefore require medical intervention to achieve pregnancy, then you are saying logically being a lesbian is an illness. Healthy people do not require medical intervention do they?

as to your remarks about straight couples, do you have any idea about the invasive and sometimes very painful tests those couples have to go though to prove they are infertile before they will even be considered for treatment. And if they are proved to be fertile they are refused. Is that what you want for lesbians? And if the lesbian is assessed to be fertile and refused? Are you saying lesbians should be treated any different from heterosexual people? Why?

I think you've been living in a self selecting group of people who think like you.

People who disagree aren't homophobic. They just don't agree with you.

Sappho, do you think that straight couples who don't have sex have a fertility issue?

Halp - KJK is oppressing me.

Again.

How is babby formed?!?!

Err...

Not having children could be a fertility issue or it could be a logistics issue.

Stating that all lesbians are infertile is homophobic.

A fertile woman in a relationship with an infertile man is not iinfertile. A single fertile woman who doesn't want children is not infertile.

No one is asking anyone to have sex. But if you want a child, egg has to meet sperm at some point - even if it is not your egg or your sperm.

This is honestly not complex.

Lesbians do not have any rights to any man's sperm.

Straight women do not have any rights to any man's sperm

Infertile men do not have any rights to another man's sperm

None. This is not a fertility issue.

I think people are just explaining the mechanics of reproduction and why it is my a fertility issue.