KJK opposing fertility treatment for gay couples

Er… @SapphosRock do you realise the hoops “straight” couples have to jump through to get fertility treatment? It’s not just “routinely offered for free”. Seriously. 🙄. The tests, the treatments, the counselling, then put on an extremely long waiting list. And if one of you has a child already, even if it’s not together… forget about it. And then you get 2 or 3 attempts if you’re lucky.

Her tweet is obviously factually correct. Regardless of her intent, it is also obvious that her tweet is going to be jumped on by homophobes. Presumably that’s a risk she’s ok to accept.

Lesbians in the comments agree with her. She's being factual.

Oh, come on, now! You can agree with people on one thing and disagree with them on many others. They're not mutually exclusive!

The tweet is clearly not particularly friendly towards homosexual couples (of either sex)! In fact I find it quite reactionary.

I'm not even referring to the fertility treatment bit - it's the sweeping statement that children are best off (zero ifs and buts) growing up with one mother and one father in a heterosexual relationship!

It is rather offensive!

Now, I absolutely do believe in the right to cause offense, so: more power to her in that respect! But I happen to vehemently disagree, and it's not somehow "pro trans lobby" or anything to not defend her on such stuff. Or the abortion statements, for that matter!

This is a women's rights issue. A really important one.

Now I'm really confused. Infertility is a woman's rights issue how? Men can be infertile and there is no human right to have a child.

It's not a woman's rights issue, it's not even a human rights issue.

The question about access to fertility treatment for same sex couples or single men and women could have been posed without using KJ's tweet.

I’m wondering what it is you think “fertility” means? Do you think a single woman who wants a baby outside of a relationship has fertility issues? If lesbian couples have “fertility issues” (in absence of any medical problems that might prevent them from becoming pregnant) presumably you must also think this applies to single childless women. Or is it the being in a relationship with “the person you love” that creates the infertility?

Have you ever asked her whether she meant 'sperm donation', Sappho?

Honestly, we have discussed this before. Have you since asked her? And have you asked whether she is specifically talking about 'anonymous' sperm donation or sperm donation where there is knowledge of the male parent or plans to allow knowledge as an adult?

Have you engaged with her about this?

Because as we have been through this before, where is the evidence she means sperm donation as well? Or is this just more speculation from people who have a sin page still published on their website about this?

My child is donor conceived and there is nothing wrong with my fertility. They're totally different things.

And I don't think my choice of how I conceived my child should be state funded either. It was my choice (and one that I know quite a lot of people don't agree with). And that's fine.

It doesn't mean they're homophobic or that they think single women or lesbian and gay couples shouldn't be parents either.

As others have said already, what KJK has said is fact.

Both women in a same sex relationship could be perfectly fecund, but they won't be conceiving any children together as neither of them produce sperm. Nothing to do with their fertility, just circumstance.

That’s not infertility 😂 Two men can be perfectly fertile and still not make a baby together, because thats nature. It’s the same reason a sock doesn’t get pregnant every time a man wanks into one!

OMG can you imagine all the pregnant socks sitting around and popping out more socks. Possibly the only thing that could make my house even more of a mess.

Being same sex attached isn't a fertility issue. Being infertile is a fertility issue. Being same sex attached doesn't by virtue of your sexual orientation make you infertile in the same way that being single doesn't make you infertile. Many gay men, single or not, father children through various means including sperm donation and co-parenting and many women, lesbian or not, will become pregnant without a male partner.

There is a move towards recognising 'social' or 'situational' infertility and 'fertility privilege' and whilst I see how that is useful for some driving a particular narrative, including single men mainly, I disagree with the idea completely.

Infertility should remain a medical status, caused by a number of different physical conditions or problems and have nothing to do with your sexual orientation. There should be no insinuation that a sexual orientation is a medical condition of any kind.

Which changes the whole tone of it. It's not wrong to say it's not a fertility issue. It's part of the trend of changing what words mean to forced-team people. Saying it's a fertility issue doesn't suddenly make it something people who are homophobic will agree with.

Why is it tone deaf? Are you really suggesting that a lesbian couple might be surprised and upset to learn that they are not infertile but simply same-sex, which is what's causing the lack of spontaneous pregnancy.

Why are you still hanging around posting Sappho? Have you asked her on twitter?

She says nothing about same sex couples in relation to fertility treatment. She does state her support for same sex couples adopting.

You are making yourself look very stupid and your thread title completely misrepresents her position.

KJKs tweet was a standalone tweet. The screenshot is someone else quote tweeting it, I think. I am not a Twitter expert and find it a confusing interface at the best of times.

I saw KJKs tweet because I follow her. I didn't see that particular quote tweet, presumably because I don't follow that person or anyone they have links with (IANATE again).

Do you agree with egg donation where women have been exploited and may even be emotionally coerced into donating Sappho?

I might be foolish because I don't use Twitter. But I assumed the homophobic text was the original tweet and KJK's comment was a direct reply. PPs seem to be saying that isn't the case. Which does rather make the OP look like she's trying to make KJK look homophobic when that tweet isn't.

Just for clarity. I don't think it's a fertility issue. I do support lesbians parenting and help with that, medical if needed. Never surrogacy. But I don't support that for anyone else either.

Absolutely. All of this.

As I've said to you many times before, ask her. Now she's back on Twitter it's easier than ever.

Well it isn't a fertility issue. Has she said outright she opposes same sex couples having children?

I do with men, because it involves a surrogate. A child needs its mother (usual caveats). Lesbian couples don't need to use another woman to have a child.

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