KJK opposing fertility treatment for gay couples

Precisely. The criteria isn’t homophobic. Two people of the same sex can’t procreate. It is not the role of the NHS to try and rectify that. Where fertility funding exists it is to attempt to assist with a medical problem that prevents conception happening as it would naturally. Two lesbians don’t have a medical problem they need help with. There is no treatment that will enable two lesbians to have a baby without sperm being added from a donor. There is no right to have a child. I find it chilling that you seem to think there is.

@SapphosRock She is saying two women trying to conceive isn't a fertility issue

How do two fertile women try to conceive with each other (or, two fertile men with each other)?

And, if their endeavours don't result in conception, what has gone wrong with that biological process so that one could conclude one or both of the partners are infertile?

Just pertaining to the biological facts and no sociological or social 'science' bs .

I can't remember where I heard this but my understanding was that the law changing to make ID release compulsory for donors was connected to the early DNA tests that were publicly available.

Making it illegal to remain a secret was partly because a donor could be found by other routes, and still can be this way with the knowledge you are donor conceived, the internet and some DNA of the donor (or a relative of the donor) being recorded on the right website. It meant that legally you get the info at 18 if you want it but of course you can find it earlier with the right tools and info. Women can go abroad, or send a surrogate mother abroad, and conceive elsewhere before returning to the U.K so it's not a guarantee under U.K. law but there are restrictions on imported gametes for treatment in the U.K. They must have ID release but there are ways around it with private donors and home insemination as is obvious.

And a myth at the time was that by making donor secrecy illegal in the U.K. that the number of sperm donors went down. It actually increased but only slightly, by less than 10% IIRC.

It isn't infertility. It's reproductive incompatibility.

Her opinion isn't homophobic, procreation is.

Lesbians have equal access to fertility treatment in many trusts, if not all. By ‘equal access’ they mean that you must have attempted conception a number of times previously through self funded IUI or IVF, ie demonstrate some kind of infertility.

She's perfectly entitled to have that opinion and Tweet about it to all her followers and I am perfectly entitled to say why I find it homophobic. That's what this forum is for..

Honestly the purpose of this forum is not just for you to start threads criticising KJK , although a casual observer could be forgiven for thinking that, given the amount of times it happens.

Well why don't you ask her @SapphosRock ?

Rather than rushing here to attempt to denigrate her.

What kind of donor though? Egg? or just sperm?

Of course you're entitled to believe whatever you like, Sapphos, just as we're entitled to question why you chose a subtweet of KJK for your op rather than the tweet itself. At best it was misleading.

No it isn't. This is the sex and gender board dealing with gender politics, not fertility issues.

Why is that opinion homophobic? Given that KJK has not singled out same sex couples in that statement, the assumption there is that she means universally for anyone. Whether gay or straight or bi.

Can you elaborate on why you think disliking IVF is ridiculous?

Genuinely interested - Big Fertility is a massive ethical minefield and I find talking it out to be useful for changing/forming my own opinions.

Obvs in an ideal world we’d all have the exact number of babies we wanted (including zero babies) at the exact age we wanted them in a coparenting situation of our choice that happened to be ideal for child raising, but as it’s not an ideal world we’re all muddling through.

(I usually get oodles of ads for private IVF/donating eggs after posting on one of these threads).

How do you think babies are usually/naturally conceived by heterosexual couples, precisely? By what mechanical event?
shakes head and rolls eyes skywards!

Your thread reminds me of an episode of Jeremy Kyle, many, many years ago, that i happened to see. There was a girl of about 17/18 ish, who swore blind she couldn't possibly be pregnant because she deliberately didn't go to sleep after the act!
Your seeming lack of understanding of what's being said here, seems to be about on the same level as that, either that, or you're just looking for an argument???

Arf at “I don’t even like IVF” how ridiculous.

An infertile lesbian should have the same access to fertility treatment as a single straight female OR a straight infertile woman who’s male partner is infertile.

Gay men cannot gestate

How about if I as a heterosexual woman with no children as I'm infertile (and a believer of the fact that that is the hand nature dealt me I just had to accept it and be childless), will that make it better?

2 men or 2 women unable to procreate with each other is not a fertility issue.

It's a biology issue as the 2 men or the 2 women could all be as fertile as hell and capable biologically of having children.

And to add her comment:

'I am totally opposed to donor conception. I don't even like IVF'

It's a fairly common opinion. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but she is perfectly entitled to have it.

Oh dear @SapphosRock, this thread really isn’t going the way you hoped, is it? Nearly 200 posts and not one of them agreeing with you…

I'm sorry this makes you sad, Sappho. It must be hard to hear.

People can disagree with things for fact based reasons, not just because of bigotry.

As posters have pointed out, some lesbians ARE infertile, so once that’s been determined (which annoyingly, I accept, does usually mean spending quite a lot of money) then of course, lesbians should have the same rights to access NHS infertility treatments as infertile straight women and infertile bisexual women.

Which in a lot of areas, dependent on CCG, is pretty much shit-all, anyway.

Why would a fertile lesbian need to use ivf to conceive?

Surely insemination is all that would be necessary?

Men can’t gestate babies so regardless of your sexuality they won’t be able to do that.

If we fund infertility IVF we also need to fund that used for donor conception other wise we are being discriminatory.

I disagree. The NHS exists to fix problems caused by your body not working as it should. There is not necessarily anything medically wrong with a same sex couple who can't conceive. Biology and gametes aren't homophobic.

Yup. Thin end of the wedge.