Why are the filmmakers of Affirmation Generation anonymous

NZdad · 03/03/2023 03:26

socialmedia23 · 21/02/2023 22:46

DH was actually becoming very convinced by their arguments but then he asked me what was the source? This was triggered by the fact that there was footage of Helen Joyce on GB News. I actually found this documentary on Mumsnet so I didn't actually know. We stopped watching halfway and we did a deep dive into the people behind the documentary

DH has always been very insistent that he needs to establish the provenance of all the news sources/media that he consumes in order to ensure that they are not fake news sources. Since we can't find anything, he is now convinced that the entire documentary is garbage since we can't establish who is behind them and from what we can surmise, it seems to be a group of mothers of trans kids (many of whom are keeping their identities anonymous). Is it that necessary for them to be so discreet regarding their identities? There is also little coverage of this documentary, which lessens its credibility in DH's eyes.

I feel like a lot of people may think like DH and this would mean that an excellent documentary doesn't reach its intended audience. I feel sad because i was really enjoying the documentary and i felt like i was learning so much but then it is overshadowed by the fact that I don't actually know who is behind it! Dh might sound very unreasonable in what kind of media he permits himself to watch but that is because he attended an ultra orthodox jewish school as a child (where he was told many untrue things) and had a father who was a bit of a conspiracy theorist so he has learnt this way of filtering information (only read news and consume media from reputable sources). I tried to explain to Dh that they are keeping their identities anonymous foe fear of losing their jobs. However at the same time, doesn't that mean the whole argument isn't as convincing and isn't the point of the documentary to educate?

To be fair to DH, he does say he will read Helena Barnes' book about the Tavistock Clinic (recommended by FT) and maybe he will then be ready to watch this documentary...

Interview with two of the filmmakers of "Affirmation Generation", Vera Lindner and Joey Brite: www.womenarehuman.com/affirmation-generation-interview-with-joey-brite-and-vera-lindner-filmmakers-documenting-the-lies-of-transgender-medicine/

DaSilvaP · 02/03/2023 04:46

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 08:18

Being new to the trans issue, I am trying to establish if it's one of those us Vs them kind of issues. I tend to regard these issues with a bit of hesitance as often the truth is much more nuanced..

Phrases like 'lunatic sect' honestly don't convince me.

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Phrases like 'lunatic sect' honestly don't convince me.

How would you call a braying mob of the "no-discussion-allowed" school of open-mindedness? Using bullying methods that make the Church of Scientology positively look like a bunch of sweeties?

Just asking for a friend ...

Datun · 22/02/2023 18:07

But the point I was making was that I believe with issues of identity, there is an argument that we can choose what we identify as and it is basic respect for others that we accept their identity..of course there is a limit to this approach..I am happy to use someone's pronouns etc but advocating for full surgery to transition is something quite different. It's not all or nothing. You have a very binary understanding of the world and that inevitably leads to alienation.

No. It's not about a binary understanding of 'the world'. It's about a binary understanding of sex. It is binary.

But that's not the only issue.

Men who want to be women rely on sexist stereotyping. So you can go ahead and respect that all you like. But a cornerstone of feminism is to challenge sexist stereotyping. So you probably won't find many feminists in agreement.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 16:06

DaSilvaP · 22/02/2023 15:30

Long time ago I was watching an ex-CIA director being interviewed by a journalist who sounded rather idealistic, which prompted this ex-CIA director to state as a simple matter of fact:

"in every country we can find useful idiots [who will do our bidding for free] and outright traitors [who we need to pay]. It's not our job to educate them, but to use them."

Don't ask me for any link, it was ways before the Web was created. I don't even remember the exact year or decade - yes I'm that old.

My point being: don't assume everyone defending child mutilation is being paid to do so.

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Even if the OP is doing it for free they’re (metaphorically) being paid too much for the standard they’re achieving

Eyerollcentral · 22/02/2023 15:32

DaSilvaP · 22/02/2023 15:30

Long time ago I was watching an ex-CIA director being interviewed by a journalist who sounded rather idealistic, which prompted this ex-CIA director to state as a simple matter of fact:

"in every country we can find useful idiots [who will do our bidding for free] and outright traitors [who we need to pay]. It's not our job to educate them, but to use them."

Don't ask me for any link, it was ways before the Web was created. I don't even remember the exact year or decade - yes I'm that old.

My point being: don't assume everyone defending child mutilation is being paid to do so.

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Lol lol lol v gd

Farmageddon · 22/02/2023 15:30

You keep mentioning religion as a sort of equivalence here, but it really isn't. Belief is not biology - men who claim to 'feel like women' can never understand the biological reality of women's lives, they are usually basing their feelings on stereotypes anyway.
That's not to say we should hate them or be horrible to them but nor should we have to buy into their version of reality, especially if it harms or inconveniences us.

And actually, most people want to be accommodating in society, the problem comes when laws and policies and language are being changed (without proper public consultation) to facilitate men using women's spaces, taking places on our sports teams, our prisons, our refuges.
That is why there is a pushback, not because we are trying to be mean - we are trying to hold on to the single sex spaces that we need, spaces where no men belong whatever their feelings about themselves.

Additionally, children who are in distress (because of puberty, trauma, autism, confusion about their sexuality or maybe something else) are being told that all their problems are as a result of gender dysphoria and the 'cure' is hormones and surgery. These young people are being lied to and led down a path of irreversible damage.

DaSilvaP · 22/02/2023 15:30

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 10:16

Whatever you’re getting paid, it’s too much

Long time ago I was watching an ex-CIA director being interviewed by a journalist who sounded rather idealistic, which prompted this ex-CIA director to state as a simple matter of fact:

"in every country we can find useful idiots [who will do our bidding for free] and outright traitors [who we need to pay]. It's not our job to educate them, but to use them."

Don't ask me for any link, it was ways before the Web was created. I don't even remember the exact year or decade - yes I'm that old.

My point being: don't assume everyone defending child mutilation is being paid to do so.

Anactor · 22/02/2023 15:25

Frankly, you began to lose me at the point your (possibly imaginary) DH moved from being ex-ultra-orthodox to only attending an ultra-orthodox primary, while his parents are ordinary orthodox and apparently okay with their unmarried daughter sleeping with her boyfriend in their house.

The 'Jewish' friend who doesn't want to convert just added the icing on the cake. Very convenient bunch of friends and relatives you've got here. Their beliefs seem to precisely match whatever you're arguing at the time.

Original poster

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 15:10

Eyerollcentral · 22/02/2023 14:38

Right, the way many Protestant churches don’t recognise members of the Catholic Church as Christian. Doesn’t mean a confirmed member of the catholic church is not a Christian. Your friend doesn’t meet the membership requirements of any branch of Judaism so it’s a moot point.
‘I have heard of people who have taken 10 years to convert to Judaism so does that mean despite leading a full Jewish life in that 10 years, she only became Jewish when she dunked her head in the mikveh?’ Yes, yes it does. They haven’t lived a full Jewish life, they have been preparing to convert to Judaism. That’s the rules the people who ARE Jewish say god gave them in order to determine who is Jewish or not. The law of god. How on earth did you manage to successful complete your conversion if you can’t get your head round this? Oh no, please no, please tell me you aren’t another self-proclaimed Jew! Honestly stop, my sides are sore from laughing.
Men can’t become women and women can’t become men OP. Your friend isn’t a Jew and your imaginary husband didn’t get half way through a documentary and decide it was garbage because some sources were anonymous. Try getting some fresh air and vitamin d.

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By nature, Judaism is a questioning religion. We did explore at length what makes a Jew a Jew during my conversion classes. I mean I accept there are many differences in opinion (Jewish people cannot agree on many things). Yes the official line is you need to undergo rabbinic conversion. And the nature of conversion with Judaism is that it is very much a lifestyle change so much so that people are so immersed in their community before they even formally convert. I took 1.5 years to convert (1 year of classes and then met before a Jewish court) but was involved in the Jewish community for much longer. Hence why many people feel Jewish even before they have done the conversion.

There are articles like this for a reason:

www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/if-you-marry-a-jew-youre-one-of-us/amp/

Certainly, some who marry us will decide to officially “join” the Jewish people through rabbinic conversion. Our arms should be wide open and encouraging to those on this path. Conversion classes and experiences need to be excellent, accessible and, frankly, more affordable in order to attract larger numbers. Our community needs to set this as a priority.

But for those who choose to be part of our community without formal conversion — who come to the Passover seder and drive their children to Hebrew school, who sit shiva with us, or who bring their sons into the community at a brit milah, who shep naches at their daughters’ bat mitzvah and who go to Israel on vacation — we say welcome. It’s a pleasure to know you. Come learn. You’re one of us if you want to be.

—

Steven M. Cohen is a research professor at Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion and director of the Berman Jewish Policy Archive. Rabbi Joy Levitt is the executive director of the JCC Manhattan.

OP posts:

JemimaTiggywinkles · 22/02/2023 14:48

A general word of warning: if you only ever consume news from "reputable" sources you seriously risk being underinformed, or ill informed, and only getting inherently biased information. It also sets up the idea that some news organisations are trustworthy / honest and should be believed. The best way to protect yourself from "fake news" is to be as read as widely as possible, not to limit yourself. Who decides which sources are "reputable"?

For a great many people on this board, we have been trying to get this stuff covered by mainstream media for literally years. In those years, when nobody was listening because the BBC is reputable and MN isn't, hundreds (possibly thousands) of children have been subjected to medical malpractice.

Melroses · 22/02/2023 14:41

2013isback · 22/02/2023 01:22

vimeo.com/800032857

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odysee.com/@AFFIRMATION_GENERATION:8/AFFIRMATION-GENERATION-Feb18.mp4_SD_DOWNLOAD:8

It can be found here now. Definitely worth watching.

Eyerollcentral · 22/02/2023 14:38

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 14:30

The different branches of Judaism don't often recognize each other's conversions. It isn't an easy topic to drill down to. Historically, Judaism has been difficult to convert to as it is limited by geography (need to live in the vicinity of a synagogue) and also you need to learn Hebrew. In my synagogue, you needed to write a thesis which is not as easy for people with learning disabilities. It's not like converting to Catholicism where almost anyone can do it. I have heard of people who have taken 10 years to convert to Judaism so does that mean despite leading a full Jewish life in that 10 years, she only became Jewish when she dunked her head in the mikveh?

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Right, the way many Protestant churches don’t recognise members of the Catholic Church as Christian. Doesn’t mean a confirmed member of the catholic church is not a Christian. Your friend doesn’t meet the membership requirements of any branch of Judaism so it’s a moot point.
‘I have heard of people who have taken 10 years to convert to Judaism so does that mean despite leading a full Jewish life in that 10 years, she only became Jewish when she dunked her head in the mikveh?’ Yes, yes it does. They haven’t lived a full Jewish life, they have been preparing to convert to Judaism. That’s the rules the people who ARE Jewish say god gave them in order to determine who is Jewish or not. The law of god. How on earth did you manage to successful complete your conversion if you can’t get your head round this? Oh no, please no, please tell me you aren’t another self-proclaimed Jew! Honestly stop, my sides are sore from laughing.
Men can’t become women and women can’t become men OP. Your friend isn’t a Jew and your imaginary husband didn’t get half way through a documentary and decide it was garbage because some sources were anonymous. Try getting some fresh air and vitamin d.

Thelnebriati · 22/02/2023 14:37

'People should be able to identify as anything they want'. Cool.

But its not how we run services that are based on sex, such as maternity services; or that are affected by sex, such as prisons.

Original poster

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 14:31

Boomboom22 · 22/02/2023 14:26

You are actually being really offensive op. Do you really know know anything about this and the tactics used from the Denton report? Literally they know people would be anti this and that is why the forced teaming of lgb with tq. Have you missed the whole paedophile link here! Hmm I wonder who might want to encourage children to stop puberty and brain development at a young age and ensure they are infertile. Ffs. Also your friend is not Jewish unless he actually believes, you can't just say it because you want to be in a gang!

He does believe, my feeling is that he hasn't found a denomination that he feels comfortable with converting to even if he wants to be Jewish

OP posts:

Original poster

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 14:30

Eyerollcentral · 22/02/2023 14:23

Your friend is not a Jew because they haven’t converted to Judaism and don’t appear to have been born a Jew and have gone through the rites associated with membership of that faith. Someone can’t walk in to a Catholic Church and say I’m a catholic now. They aren’t. They are someone sitting in a Catholic Church. If they want to become a catholic they have to study and undertake the sacraments the church requires to confirm membership. I am sure the various branches of Judaism all have their own membership requirements. You, particularly you as a fairly recent convert, don’t get to swoop in and tell people who have been Jews all their life and complied with the terms of the membership of that faith that they are wrong and that your friend the poseur is actually a Jew. The same way that men don’t get to tell women what a woman actually is.
‘You have a very binary understanding of the world and that inevitably leads to alienation.’ Not at all, I’ve had an interesting and varied life and lived across the world, I have had friends and romantic partners drawn from all kinds of backgrounds different to my own. But I won’t allow people to force me to lie and say a man is a woman. I have had transgender clients and I have treated them with the same care and respect as any of my clients. Every one is entitled to be treated with dignity and respect, starting with women and girls.

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The different branches of Judaism don't often recognize each other's conversions. It isn't an easy topic to drill down to. Historically, Judaism has been difficult to convert to as it is limited by geography (need to live in the vicinity of a synagogue) and also you need to learn Hebrew. In my synagogue, you needed to write a thesis which is not as easy for people with learning disabilities. It's not like converting to Catholicism where almost anyone can do it. I have heard of people who have taken 10 years to convert to Judaism so does that mean despite leading a full Jewish life in that 10 years, she only became Jewish when she dunked her head in the mikveh?

OP posts:

Farmageddon · 22/02/2023 14:28

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 14:20

from yougov, A majority of Britons believe that people should be able to change the gender they socially identify as, with 55% saying “people should be able to identify as being of a different gender to the one they had recorded at birth”. Fewer than half as many (25%) take the opposing view, with 20% unsure.

However, when it comes to the matter of being allowed to legally change their gender status, the public is divided. Four in ten (40%) say the law should allow people to change their legal gender, while 37% say it should not. The remaining 23% are unsure.

How is it 99%??? Bit of an echo chamber

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People know that humans cannot change sex - it's literally impossible.

So a certain amount of people think that other should be able to identify as another gender, fair enough. That is not the same thing at as changing sex, which is what Eyerollcentral actually stated.

But again, you know this and are being deliberately obtuse..

I think your mask is slipping OP...

Eyerollcentral · 22/02/2023 14:26

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 14:20

from yougov, A majority of Britons believe that people should be able to change the gender they socially identify as, with 55% saying “people should be able to identify as being of a different gender to the one they had recorded at birth”. Fewer than half as many (25%) take the opposing view, with 20% unsure.

However, when it comes to the matter of being allowed to legally change their gender status, the public is divided. Four in ten (40%) say the law should allow people to change their legal gender, while 37% say it should not. The remaining 23% are unsure.

How is it 99%??? Bit of an echo chamber

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But you referred to the silent centre. They are hardly taking part in surveys if they are silent now are they? I also think I said GLOBAL population. YouGov only surveys people in the UK. What happened to gathering info for her husband lol

Boomboom22 · 22/02/2023 14:26

You are actually being really offensive op. Do you really know know anything about this and the tactics used from the Denton report? Literally they know people would be anti this and that is why the forced teaming of lgb with tq. Have you missed the whole paedophile link here! Hmm I wonder who might want to encourage children to stop puberty and brain development at a young age and ensure they are infertile. Ffs. Also your friend is not Jewish unless he actually believes, you can't just say it because you want to be in a gang!

Eyerollcentral · 22/02/2023 14:23

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 13:58

So who do you consider a Jew then? Someone who has an orthodox conversion, or are reform or masorti conversions permitted? Also under what authority do you consider to be valid..Reform considers children of non Jewish mother's to be Jewish (if raised in the faith), I suppose you reject that as well.

Does your opinion change with the Supreme Court of Israel judgements.

It is a deviation from the original subject. But the point I was making was that I believe with issues of identity, there is an argument that we can choose what we identify as and it is basic respect for others that we accept their identity..of course there is a limit to this approach..I am happy to use someone's pronouns etc but advocating for full surgery to transition is something quite different. It's not all or nothing. You have a very binary understanding of the world and that inevitably leads to alienation.

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Your friend is not a Jew because they haven’t converted to Judaism and don’t appear to have been born a Jew and have gone through the rites associated with membership of that faith. Someone can’t walk in to a Catholic Church and say I’m a catholic now. They aren’t. They are someone sitting in a Catholic Church. If they want to become a catholic they have to study and undertake the sacraments the church requires to confirm membership. I am sure the various branches of Judaism all have their own membership requirements. You, particularly you as a fairly recent convert, don’t get to swoop in and tell people who have been Jews all their life and complied with the terms of the membership of that faith that they are wrong and that your friend the poseur is actually a Jew. The same way that men don’t get to tell women what a woman actually is.
‘You have a very binary understanding of the world and that inevitably leads to alienation.’ Not at all, I’ve had an interesting and varied life and lived across the world, I have had friends and romantic partners drawn from all kinds of backgrounds different to my own. But I won’t allow people to force me to lie and say a man is a woman. I have had transgender clients and I have treated them with the same care and respect as any of my clients. Every one is entitled to be treated with dignity and respect, starting with women and girls.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 14:23

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 14:20

from yougov, A majority of Britons believe that people should be able to change the gender they socially identify as, with 55% saying “people should be able to identify as being of a different gender to the one they had recorded at birth”. Fewer than half as many (25%) take the opposing view, with 20% unsure.

However, when it comes to the matter of being allowed to legally change their gender status, the public is divided. Four in ten (40%) say the law should allow people to change their legal gender, while 37% say it should not. The remaining 23% are unsure.

How is it 99%??? Bit of an echo chamber

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Mmmm

try getting Isla Bryson pregnant

I’d go so far as to say 100% of people know humans can’t change sex

Floisme · 22/02/2023 14:21

I'm going to hazard a guess that most people on this thread (if not all of us) came to this thinking it didn't have to be all or nothing and surely we call all sit down and talk this over like adults. Now who knows op, maybe you'll turn out to be the one who manages to make the breakthrough and get that conversation started and good luck to you. But if you think we're the ones who need a lecture on needing to have civil conversations, then I'm won't be holding my breath.

Original poster

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 14:20

Eyerollcentral · 22/02/2023 14:14

Yes you are correct. 99% of the world’s population know that you can’t change sex, are disgusted at male access to women’s spaces and are horrified that some deluded people think that children should be medicated from a young age because they said they were really a boy. I’m not an extremist. I’m just in tune with reality. You seem to be under the misapprehension that your views are mainstream, when you sound quite removed from reality. The Jewish non Jewish friend just wiped any credibility you had OP, if you are going to try and argue with strangers on line again come up with something else as genuinely I’ve laughed my head off about it. It’s the silliest thing I’ve heard in ages

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from yougov, A majority of Britons believe that people should be able to change the gender they socially identify as, with 55% saying “people should be able to identify as being of a different gender to the one they had recorded at birth”. Fewer than half as many (25%) take the opposing view, with 20% unsure.

However, when it comes to the matter of being allowed to legally change their gender status, the public is divided. Four in ten (40%) say the law should allow people to change their legal gender, while 37% say it should not. The remaining 23% are unsure.

How is it 99%??? Bit of an echo chamber

OP posts:

Helleofabore · 22/02/2023 14:19

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 09:29

Kinda like how you shouldn't let your opinions on Brexit be based solely on a documentary which interviews some people saying that they 'lost' their jobs because eastern Europeans are cheaper and where some fisherman are giving interviews on how fishing quotas are so very dreadful.

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yes. I agree.

The documentary leads you to look up people which leads to more information and more information.

I agree with you.

Farmageddon · 22/02/2023 14:19

socialmedia23
I am happy to use someone's pronouns etc but advocating for full surgery to transition is something quite different. It's not all or nothing. You have a very binary understanding of the world and that inevitably leads to alienation.

You do realise that to the diehard trans activists this is utter transphobia don't you? Nothing to but total acceptance and capitulation is enough for them...

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 14:17

‘My friend eats bacon but I respect her identity as a vegetarian because I’m a good person. We need to have a conversation as a society about what vegetarian means so she can enjoy her bacon and still have her identity respected ’

righty ho

none of this made any sense, you know that right, OP?