Page 3 | Kate Forbes reported for 'transphobia'

ArabellaScott · 2023-02-21T16:01:05+00:00

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23336504.kate-forbes-may-breached-snp-rules-transphobia/ 'KATE Forbes looks set to be probed by the SNP's conduct committee after members of the party's LGBTQ+ wing accused her of breaking rules on transphobia. In an interview with ITV Border, when asked if she believed a trans woman is a woman, the Finance Secretary replied: "I believe that a trans woman is a biological male who identifies as a woman."'

Reallybadidea · 22/02/2023 19:48

If a trans woman is a woman can someone born a woman be a trans woman? And if not, why not?

bloodyfootprint · 22/02/2023 19:41

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 22/02/2023 07:08

“Assigned at birth” is a very sloppy, as you put it, expression.

Assigned by whom? The fates?

Show quote history

By the chromosomes.

DameMaud · 22/02/2023 19:31

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2023 19:23

www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43290/the-second-coming

The Second Coming
By William Butler Yeats

Turning and turning in the widening gyre

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.

The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out

When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it

Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again; but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Yes! Thank you!

Signalbox · 22/02/2023 19:26

highame · 22/02/2023 18:43

Has anyone pointed out what the definition of transphobia is yet and if they have, has it been acknowledge by all countries, is there a UN declaration? Has anyone been imprisoned for this crime

Everyone and everything is transphobic. No definition required.

Sugarfree23 · 22/02/2023 19:26

@DameMaud I know exactly what you are saying. And yes being able to trust is a huge thing.
So many MPs MSPs are all there for themselves we need someone we can trust.

Original poster

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2023 19:24

Sorry, the formatting's all fucked.

OP posts:

Original poster

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2023 19:23

www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43290/the-second-coming

The Second Coming
By William Butler Yeats

Turning and turning in the widening gyre

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.

The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out

When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it

Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again; but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

OP posts:

Original poster

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2023 19:23

Yeats, surely? 'things all apart, the centre cannot hold'

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DameMaud · 22/02/2023 19:13

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2023 18:18

I'm finding it quite funny that a Tory MP and a christian who doesn't believe in sex outwith marriage or abortion are more appealing to this unmarried agnostic bisexual leftwinger than most of the people I'd be likely to 'align' with politically.

I just want people to be honest and discuss things respectfully, that's all. Tolerance for diversity of opinion should be a hallmark of a healthy democracy.

Same for me. I think it's because trust and security is the foundational need we all have, and trust is built from sensing someone's clarity and integrity rather than simply sharing the same worldview.

In this highly unstable moment, I think we are feeling that basic need for trust again; to feel solid ground.

Kemi, and others we might find ourselves admiring outside of our political affiliation, seem to offer clarity and a sense of standing for the larger principles of democracy/reason/freedom of belief etc that transcend left/right political standpoints. These are the foundational things that we need to feel are still in place.

As a slight tangent example- one of the realisations that has rocked me the most in all of this, is the shift in organisations such as Amnesty and the ACLU- whose very reason for being, and value, was in standing outside of/beyond politics- in impartiality- so as to protect freedom of conscience and expression as fundamental. For these institutions to now show politically partiality I find shocking and destabilising.

With a stable foundation, there can be room for healthy progress and change- but the centre needs to hold.
(Someone posted an amazing poem along these lines on a thread recently and I can't find it!)

As I'm writing this, I'm thinking how we are in dangerous times for these reasons. As history has shown; in times of instability, societies needing to feel basic trust and security again are drawn to leaders (or potential leaders) who offer that solid ground by being clear and straightforward/principled. If a society isn't lucky enough to have a leader available whose clarity and principles are based in democratic integrity- not sure that's the right phrase- (Mandela for example? ), then they are vulnerable to someone quite different.

I'm not sure I've explained what I mean here clearly. I'm not a sociologist/politicist, but just musing from a more psychological lens.

BishopRock · 22/02/2023 19:07

Slight aside, but I came across this interview with Kemi and I found myself liking what she says!

LBC Interview

highame · 22/02/2023 18:43

Has anyone pointed out what the definition of transphobia is yet and if they have, has it been acknowledge by all countries, is there a UN declaration? Has anyone been imprisoned for this crime

WickedSerious · 22/02/2023 18:36

This reply has been deleted

This post has been withdrawn at the poster's request due to privacy concerns.

Facts aren't very popular theses days,especially biological ones.

Igneococcus · 22/02/2023 18:35

"She would make mistakes and would doubtless do many things I might think unwise but she is someone with whom it is possible to have a good faith disagreement and in modern Scottish politics that makes her depressingly unusual."

That's what Alex Massie said about Kate Forbes a few days ago in the Times. I trust AM's judgement.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 22/02/2023 18:23

I agree @ArabellaScott .

MarshaBradyo · 22/02/2023 18:21

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2023 18:18

I'm finding it quite funny that a Tory MP and a christian who doesn't believe in sex outwith marriage or abortion are more appealing to this unmarried agnostic bisexual leftwinger than most of the people I'd be likely to 'align' with politically.

I just want people to be honest and discuss things respectfully, that's all. Tolerance for diversity of opinion should be a hallmark of a healthy democracy.

I think it’s tough as in a way a typical voter who used to be the left might have liberal views and find the authoritarian stance of the left today very difficult.

It’s how I feel and part of the reason Labour has lost my vote.

I listened to Blair and W Hague this morning on radio. Granted they are not in the heat of politics today but it was a good listen on important stuff.

I prefer the freer thinking of Cons today but that has been a shift of the left imo

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 22/02/2023 18:19

Absolutely agree @ArabellaScott.

Original poster

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2023 18:18

I'm finding it quite funny that a Tory MP and a christian who doesn't believe in sex outwith marriage or abortion are more appealing to this unmarried agnostic bisexual leftwinger than most of the people I'd be likely to 'align' with politically.

I just want people to be honest and discuss things respectfully, that's all. Tolerance for diversity of opinion should be a hallmark of a healthy democracy.

OP posts:

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 22/02/2023 18:17

That Kemi clip is very classy.
I proper love her.
Can’t believe I’m fangirling for a Tory MP.

A few short years ago I was an elected officer for my local Momentum branch, as well as holding branch and CLP posts for Labour.

We’re definitely in The Upside Down.

Goldpaw · 22/02/2023 18:13

I loved Kemi bringing up the people who initially supported her, but have withdrawn now she's displayed integrity about her beliefs.

They just go whatever way they think the wind blows. No principles at all.

Original poster

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2023 18:07

Waitwhat23 · 22/02/2023 17:52

And as a disclaimer, I am an atheist and do not share Kate's beliefs in respect to same sex marriage/no sex outside of marriage etc. However, she is entitled to hold those beliefs. And it's been quite shocking to see members of her party disavow her for holding beliefs they knew she held - it's hardly been a secret. And seemingly wasn't an issue when she was elected as an MSP or when she was made a Cabinet Secretary. Only now.

Funny that.

100%

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PronounssheRa · 22/02/2023 17:55

Imnobody4 · 22/02/2023 16:39

Essential viewing: Equalities Minister @KemiBadenoch on the treatment of SNP hopeful Kate Forbes, speaking to me at a Politico UK event last night.

Badenoch supports gay marriage, but praises Forbes' honesty and fiercely defends her right to free expression.

Watch the clip

twitter.com/Jack_Blanchard_/status/1628307269698961409?t=QCee6zacys7k7JmszM2srA&s=19

I am in awe of Kemi - such clarity and dignity.

Kemi is very impressive 👏

She knows her brief, understands the EA and speaks with such clarity.

Waitwhat23 · 22/02/2023 17:52

And as a disclaimer, I am an atheist and do not share Kate's beliefs in respect to same sex marriage/no sex outside of marriage etc. However, she is entitled to hold those beliefs. And it's been quite shocking to see members of her party disavow her for holding beliefs they knew she held - it's hardly been a secret. And seemingly wasn't an issue when she was elected as an MSP or when she was made a Cabinet Secretary. Only now.

Funny that.

Waitwhat23 · 22/02/2023 17:47

The Free Church of Scotland ('wee frees') have issued a statement -

freechurch.org/free-church-of-scotland-responds-to-media-enquiries/

Original poster

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2023 16:51

That's fucking brilliant. Thanks for sharing.

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Imnobody4 · 22/02/2023 16:39

Essential viewing: Equalities Minister @KemiBadenoch on the treatment of SNP hopeful Kate Forbes, speaking to me at a Politico UK event last night.

Badenoch supports gay marriage, but praises Forbes' honesty and fiercely defends her right to free expression.

Watch the clip

twitter.com/Jack_Blanchard_/status/1628307269698961409?t=QCee6zacys7k7JmszM2srA&s=19

I am in awe of Kemi - such clarity and dignity.