Kate Forbes reported for 'transphobia'

People seeing something as transphobic and it actually being transphobic are two different things though.

She's not "outing" anyone as biologically male because by definition, a trans woman can only be biologically male - otherwise it would simply be a woman.

She acknowledged that the person identifies as a woman. But your personal identification preferences do not erode biological fact. So rather refreshingly for a politician, she's answered clearly with actual, proven, scientific facts.

If people want to take offence, that's their choice but you can't deny the existence of biology, and it's ridiculous that biological fact can't be mentioned because "transphobia".

I don't see any correlation with the example you gave about a British-Asian only wanting to identify as British - that's nothing like the same thing at all. The "Asian" suffix is unnecessary because the person is still British regardless of their skin colour. A better example would be say, a French person, born in France and whose home is in France, saying they identify as British. Well, fine, no issue with that if that's where they feel ideologically at home - but they're still actually French.

The SNPs failure to admit that transwomen are male is part of the reason they are in this mess.

They're also out of step with not only reality but the public belief on this.

If they are then going to try and discipline one of their MSPs for something that's fundamentally true and also a protected belief in uk law AND something the majority believe then they are going to look very foolish.

the way she phrased it is basically outing the transwoman as being biologically male which isn't okay

there is no transwoman to be outed as biologically male. She hasn’t pointed across a room and said ‘that one there. Jemima is a biological male. Just identifies as a woman’.

it’s a general, factual statement given as a definition. In direct response to a question. Everyone KNOWS that transwomen are biologically male. It’s not outing anyone.

It all looks very much like an attempt to prevent people speaking basic truths about reality.

If transphobia is merely a concept for silencing people saying really bland, factual things, then the problem is with the people determined to use the concept to stop people talking.

That was a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.

Good for Kate. Why should she (or anyone else) be required to deny facts and play at make-believe?

Let them probe - let's shine the brightest light possible on this nonsense and let them be seen for the out of touch fools they are.

This is causing issues for the SNP

There were other comments which have also been said to be problematic but on that statement alone it is fact and that it can’t be said is disturbing

I think it's a nice, clear and succinct answer and perfectly correct. If tw weren't biologically male, what would they be transing from and to? Yet again the tras have completely failed to read the room. I hope her comments, and the public reaction to them, will help other politicians get to grips with this issue. There is nothing scary or transphobic about stating reality with compassion and understanding, which is what she did.

the way she phrased it is basically outing the transwoman as being biologically male which isn't okay

How is that outing? By definition a transwoman is a biological male.

she paid as a politician to abide by their beliefs and codes of ethics. If she choose to let her own beliefs come into that's she needs to face the consequences.

This is just wrong. And the tone is threatening ("needs to face the consequences"). There are some issues that transcend politics and party lines. This is one of them. The Lib Dems recently discovered they can't force definitions onto their party members and this looks almost like a carbon copy of what they tried and failed to do.

You can like or not like someone's views. Share or not share their beliefs. You can't force people to have certain views or beliefs. This is not British. It's not democratic. It's not progressive. It divides, causes unrest, creates social fissures. Surely we have learnt this from recent history, not too far from our shores.

If what she said is transphobic, then describing a woman as an adult human female - or even daring to refer to said person as 'she' - is grossly misogynist.

Anybody who refers to me as British must also be a nasty xenophobe - even though that is what I obviously am, and it is not a slur in any way.

I wonder which other neutral facts we are now going to be banned from acknowledging? If a trans person is too sensitive to even have basic facts about them confirmed in context, the issue is clearly with them and not with the person just responding to questions with basic facts.

Bring it on!

They are getting hammered on this issue but do not know when to give up.

@hryllilegur it the use of biological male that's the issue and seen as transphobic, the way she phrased it is basically outing the transwoman as being biologically male which isn't okay. It's the same argument as saying someone of a different ethnic background is say British-Asian when they simply identify British that wouldn't be accepted so neither should misgendering or insisting on bringing genetics into what is an identity.

@ResisterRex she paid as a politician to abide by their beliefs and codes of ethics. If she choose to let her own beliefs come into that's she needs to face the consequences.

So for me I'm biologically female, identify as a female with a male husband. If I'm forced to give a gender I'm female but otherwise I'm simply grumpy. I don't use Mrs, Ms, Miss, Dr, Proff etc always select other where I can or leave it blank. As a gender identity doesn't define me as a person it just says which sex organs I was born with. It would be so much easier to end all this with right life is totally gender neutral no more woman, men, non-binary etc

U R bonkers.

This shouldn't be confused with biological genotype which is usually assigned at birth and can be different to someone gender identity

Biological genotype is not "assigned"at birth. FFS.

I do believe a trans woman is a woman as an individual has the right to identify as whichever or non gender they wish, this principle is the corner stone of gender identity. This shouldn't be confused with biological genotype which is usually assigned at birth and can be different to someone gender identity

But what if you don’t believe that woman is a gender. I think woman refers to sex. I couldn’t say the above in sincerity.

Woman / female - these words are about your biological sex.

Femininity is gender (I.e. the stereotypes associated with femaleness). Anyone can perform, reject, ignore or identify with femininity (I.e. gender), but it doesn’t change anyone’s sex.

phrases or language to suggest their gender identity is not valid, for example referring to a trans woman as a 'biological man'."

this doesn’t mean the term biological male is problematic.

It’s a potential example of the transphobia they’ve defined as language that suggests gender identity is not valid.

Nothing she’s said suggest that the gender identity is not valid. But she’s been clear to accept that transwomen identify as women.

This kind of language policing such that no one is allowed to talk about reality is deeply, deeply problematic.

And it’s not what the majority of Scottish voters want from a political party.

But she doesn't believe that a man is a woman. Why should she lie? Why should any of us lie?

And I think she's been good saying she believes this, not 'this is a fact'. Can't prove she doesn't believe something.

She doesn't believe it. Why should she be forced to hide her beliefs and to lie?

Next it'll be OK to force her to recant

She hasn’t contravened that code though. She’s not used the phrase ‘biological male’ to undermine a person’s gender identity. She’s said that they identify as a woman.

So insisting that she ties herself in knots to avoid using the words biologically male is just absurd.

even in that (problematic) statement, you’d need to intend to undermine the gender identity to be transphobic.

This level of stupidity if going to tear political parties apart.

Now, I don't particularly like the SNP so I wouldn't be too sorry to see them wreck their ship with this, but the wider picture is we need multiple functioning political parties to make democracy work.

I think they're going to find that Scotland is a LOT more socially conservative than they reckoned and the anti-religion thing is going to go over less well than anticipated.

I have no idea how socially conservative the SNP membership is in general and how it will affect the leadership vote, but it may be remembered at the polls.

They're saying the quiet bit out loud. The whole point (a la Denton) is to stay under the radar folks.

Good. More sunlight on this issue is a good thing.

Very sloppy reply for a politician she should have either declined to answer or answer it properly. As it's stands her answer is transphobic by the code she signed up to represent. It should have been phrased to acknowledge gender identity even if she wanted to rock the boat and add biology to the end of it.

Something like I do believe a trans woman is a woman as an individual has the right to identify as whichever or non gender they wish, this principle is the corner stone of gender identity. This shouldn't be confused with biological genotype which is usually assigned at birth and can be different to someone gender identity

So she basically hurt their feelings by speaking the truth (in a very kind, non-aggressive way)?

I didn’t think you could be punished for stating a medical fact?

Don’t we teach children “sticks and stones”? They really need to get a thicker skin if they’re going to go through life expecting everyone else on the planet who doesn’t agree with them that twaw - so a lot of people - should be “probed” and face trial. What happens if she refuses to be probed?

I suspect whoever thought this was a clever move within the SNP l has gravely miscalculated.

They’re basically trying to cancel one of the leadership contenders who has made a pretty neutral and factual statement that most Scots agree with.

It’s not a good look for the SNP.