Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rayner on the Isla Bryson case

243 replies

ResisterRex · 18/02/2023 20:46

It's like they don't want to win.

Angela Rayner: ‘I overshare. Keir Starmer undershares’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a243ac9c-a7d0-11ed-999f-64d8c8a46b78?shareToken=bb096ff7b4ffc77b62d8a23af42fefd5

"Is Isla Bryson a woman? “The recent case?” Looking slightly thrown, she starts talking about guidelines, processes, safeguards, circumstances. “So from what I know about the case, I would not have been putting that person in a women-only prison.” But that wasn’t the question, so I ask again.

“Well, that person’s identifying as a woman now. But they’re right at the beginning of a transition — that they believe is right for them, however, and that’s fine. We respect that. That doesn’t mean to say by respecting it you instantly say, OK, well, that person then goes into a vulnerable space.”

Rayner keeps saying Bryson is “at the very start of the process” of becoming a woman, and keeps citing this as a reason why she should not be in a women’s jail. But Bryson began gender reassignment therapy back in 2020, shortly after she was charged. The SNP’s new Gender Recognition Reform Bill, which Labour voted for, would grant a gender recognition certificate (GRC) to any adult who declared they had been living in their acquired gender for just three months. In other words, had the law Rayner’s own party supports been in place when Bryson began her transition, she could by now have been legally female for more than two years. Even under the existing legislation, brought in by Labour in 2004, Bryson is by now eligible to apply for a GRC, although as far as anyone knows she does not have one. The Scottish Prison Service still remanded her to a women’s jail, though, because several years ago it quietly adopted a de facto self-ID policy — the very policy Rayner supports. By the logic of Rayner’s own stated beliefs, Bryson is categorically a woman.

Bryson, 31, claims to have known she was a woman since she was four. Does that mean she was a woman when she raped her victims? Rayner looks puzzled."

Continues at link

OP posts:
RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 18/02/2023 22:54

PoshCoffee · 18/02/2023 20:54

Well this could be a very interesting few months running up to the election. Especially if we get another Emily Bridges or Isla Bryson hitting the headlines.
Im looking forward to the squirming under questioning already!

The odds are good we will…i really hope we do

i can’t honestly believe the stupidity of these people

i value honesty (like a lot of people obviously) but this is a whole new level of lying disingenuous politician

UrsulaPandress · 18/02/2023 22:54

She has great hair though.

#shallow

Fluffymule · 18/02/2023 22:50

From the article;

"“Because … because … it’s where … you’ve got to take it as a whole of the circumstances.”

Do these circumstances include the fact that Bryson has a penis? “No, it’s because Isla Bryson has done damage and harm to women.” With? “Yeah, sure, I mean …” She looks cross and flustered. “It doesn’t matter whether it was a penis or some implementation.” I think Bryson’s victims would say her penis played an important part in her crimes. Does the phrase “her penis” even make any sense? “I think … to be honest, I don’t think that particularly matters.”

Angela Rayner is an utter disgrace. I wouldn't vote for her with a gun to my head.

TheShellBeach · 18/02/2023 22:48

None of that is cause and effect, is it?
There is no reason why women prisoners, who are usually victims of male abuse anyway, should have to fight off a bunch of sex offenders who have penises.

NaoiseNOTnoise · 18/02/2023 22:48

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

NaoiseNOTnoise · 18/02/2023 22:42

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

Cherryblossoms85 · 18/02/2023 22:42

Very keen to vote Labour. At this rate I'm writing none of the above on the paper.

WhereYouLeftIt · 18/02/2023 22:38

LizzieSiddal · 18/02/2023 21:17

They’re 30 points ahead and can afford not to not give a shit about women‘s safety.

Sturgeon probably thought that way.

They'll be 30 points ahead, until they aren't. And that time may come unexpectedly quickly, as it did in Scotland.

CryInToYourCornflakesNicola · 18/02/2023 22:34

Fair play to her for not being baited. We all know what the question is trying to do. The Tories would love nothing more than for the left to all get themselves cancelled in the run up to the next election

I expect better of the party that wants to run the country. If you cannot stand up and say the truth then you are not fit/principled/clever enough to run a country.

I cannot imagine how terrible it will be with such massive wusses attempting to run the country. Slightest hint of a vocal minority stamping their feet and they just go, oh noes, we cant cope with this.
Sickening, I've more backbone in my little finger than that entire labour party has.

If the entire labour party gets cancelled it might teach them a life lesson they badly need.

Ohifyouinsist · 18/02/2023 22:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Women in prison have often led chaos lives, have no permanent home, come from poverty and have mental health issues. They are very likely to have children too.

But yes of course they deserve to be locked up with male murderers and rapists.

AnnoyedwithGossips · 18/02/2023 22:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

No, they all appear to have lost touch with actual reality. This strange world we live in where DNA/biological sex can magically alter because someone says it can. It's fiction and rediculous waiting for logic to return to the world.

HopRockers · 18/02/2023 22:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Being raped is not serving your debt to society! Women should never be locked up with men.

AnnoyedwithGossips · 18/02/2023 22:19

Very sad that the Labour party have signed up to this SHIT.

I cannot vote for them unless they realise that Trans woman are not women and any man saying they are a woman and should be granted access to women's safe spaces is wrong. You CANNOT CHANGE BIOLOGICAL SEX .

You can make sure trans people are kept safe but they are not women just because they feel they are!

NaoiseNOTnoise · 18/02/2023 22:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

StaunchMomma · 18/02/2023 22:14

How many threads have we seen on here where the OP is asking for advice on how to handle gender topics eg pronouns or toilets in the workplace assertively but SENSITIVELY because they don't want to get into trouble? LOADS! Politics is Angela Rayner's job, why would she throw herself to the wolves by answering THE most contentious question of the moment?

It shouldn't be career suicide but we all know it is!!

Fair play to her for not being baited. We all know what the question is trying to do. The Tories would love nothing more than for the left to all get themselves cancelled in the run up to the next election!

Of course people should be able to answer the question with their opinion BUT we all know they can't at present!

I don't blame anyone from shying away from answering that question at the moment. I've noticed on Jeremy Vine recently that when anything trans related comes up Jeremy tells the panel they don't have to comment if they don't want to, clearly because the current climate is so nasty!

Hopefully in the near future we will be able to speak freely and calmly discuss our concerns, on both sides of the argument, but that time is not now.

TheShellBeach · 18/02/2023 22:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ElliF · 18/02/2023 22:04

I think she’s a car crash waiting to happen.
Doesn’t have a backbone and is completely out of touch with society.

HermioneWeasley · 18/02/2023 22:04

She’s so dense light bends around her

WeWereInParis · 18/02/2023 22:02

"I want to be reassured that Rayner has really thought this through. But she doesn’t seem to have interrogated her own position on this issue very thoroughly at all, and looks increasingly confused when I try to."

This sums it all up rather well I thought.

Ohifyouinsist · 18/02/2023 21:57

MsSupineLickspittle · 18/02/2023 20:58

She repeats this “our British values” line more than once, making me wonder if this will be Labour’s new soundbite in the debate on trans rights, but never explains how these values might reassure all the left-leaning women who tell me they can’t vote for a party that won’t even define what a woman is. I can only think Starmer has calculated that he can afford to lose their votes. Has Labour, I ask, at least conducted private polling to find out exactly how many they are risking?
The suggestion seems to surprise her. “I don’t know.”

Why the fuck haven't they done the polling? Who are they worried about upsetting?

I've been thinking about this a lot. The only answer Ive come up with is the young vote.

Thing is though, young voters are less likely to vote in general elections. So that makes no bloody sense if it's all about winning.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 18/02/2023 21:54

The thing is, it's so fucking simple to accept trans identities without throwing The People Formerly Known As Women under a bus.

Out of the goodness of my heart, I offer this script to politicians looking for a path through this mess.

"Yes of course TWAW (1). In the bad old days we just thought it was about biological sex but we know now that sex/gender is a 《super complicated hand wavy thing(2)》and that being a women is really about how you feel inside.

"However, the fact remains that these old fashioned ideas about sex, misguided though they may be, are deeply ingrained in society and they do create genuine disadvantages and risks for people who in less enlightened times would be classed as women because of their body.

"So my party makes a clear commitment to maintain the single sex provisions as single sex, reserved for people born female until society has moved on to the point they are no longer needed.

"At the same time, my party also commits unequivocally to introducing new protections and support for women of both sexes, and new protections and support for trans people of all genders, to deal with the challenges these groups face that are unique to them. Because they deserve more than just the old fashioned single sex facilities with a new sign on the door. They deserve to be heard and seen in their own right, not simply lumped in with everyone else who is not a cis man."

(1) TWANW. But a politician who has previously stated they are, or who knows a significant number of their potential voters won't accept anything less than TWAW, we need to find a path forward that doesn't require them to now state TWANW.

(2) I had to give up here because any description of sex/gender that one TRA gives is instantly rejected by all the others. The putative politicians will just have to fill that bit in by themselves.

Caaarrrl · 18/02/2023 21:53

LizzieSiddal · 18/02/2023 21:51

Can they not make the link to sturgeon's dogged adherence to this gender ideology and her downfall?

I presume this interview would have been done before Sturgeon resigned.

Oh yes probably. They still won't see the link though.

LizzieSiddal · 18/02/2023 21:51

Can they not make the link to sturgeon's dogged adherence to this gender ideology and her downfall?

I presume this interview would have been done before Sturgeon resigned.

EVHead · 18/02/2023 21:49

They’re wrecking their party with this weakness. So disappointed in Rayner and Starmer. If they don’t grow a backbone and speak the truth on this, they’ll never get the chance to do all the good stuff they want to do for the country.

Fenlandia · 18/02/2023 21:36

Exactly. If they get into power, then the first Bepenissed LadyCrim who comes along will have Labour tying themselves in knots like Sturgeon did in every interview.

Swipe left for the next trending thread