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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rayner on the Isla Bryson case

243 replies

ResisterRex · 18/02/2023 20:46

It's like they don't want to win.

Angela Rayner: ‘I overshare. Keir Starmer undershares’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a243ac9c-a7d0-11ed-999f-64d8c8a46b78?shareToken=bb096ff7b4ffc77b62d8a23af42fefd5

"Is Isla Bryson a woman? “The recent case?” Looking slightly thrown, she starts talking about guidelines, processes, safeguards, circumstances. “So from what I know about the case, I would not have been putting that person in a women-only prison.” But that wasn’t the question, so I ask again.

“Well, that person’s identifying as a woman now. But they’re right at the beginning of a transition — that they believe is right for them, however, and that’s fine. We respect that. That doesn’t mean to say by respecting it you instantly say, OK, well, that person then goes into a vulnerable space.”

Rayner keeps saying Bryson is “at the very start of the process” of becoming a woman, and keeps citing this as a reason why she should not be in a women’s jail. But Bryson began gender reassignment therapy back in 2020, shortly after she was charged. The SNP’s new Gender Recognition Reform Bill, which Labour voted for, would grant a gender recognition certificate (GRC) to any adult who declared they had been living in their acquired gender for just three months. In other words, had the law Rayner’s own party supports been in place when Bryson began her transition, she could by now have been legally female for more than two years. Even under the existing legislation, brought in by Labour in 2004, Bryson is by now eligible to apply for a GRC, although as far as anyone knows she does not have one. The Scottish Prison Service still remanded her to a women’s jail, though, because several years ago it quietly adopted a de facto self-ID policy — the very policy Rayner supports. By the logic of Rayner’s own stated beliefs, Bryson is categorically a woman.

Bryson, 31, claims to have known she was a woman since she was four. Does that mean she was a woman when she raped her victims? Rayner looks puzzled."

Continues at link

OP posts:
BellaAmorosa · 19/02/2023 10:21

LizzieSiddal · 19/02/2023 08:21

@PretzelKnot · Today 08:10
I maintain that the photographer who took the shot of Bryson in pink leggings with his cock bulge front and centre should win a Pulitzer. That photo has started to change the world.

I agree, without that picture the public would not have paid half as much attention and the penny would not have dropped.
Transwoman equals a man with a cock is now clearly established with the public.

I want to thank that photographer.

@PretzelKnot and @LizzieSiddal
Also, leggings. The fact that the photo showed the muscular legs as well as his penis played a part. Really drove home that he was a man with man's strength.

MarshaBradyo · 19/02/2023 10:17

TheClitterati · 19/02/2023 10:15

Let's not forget all the institutional capture by gender ideology that has happened while the Tories have been in power & it's not even been their policy.

We must put as much press on tory politicians as all the other fuckers.

I agree pressure should be right now too. I’d say it is. It’s working slowly which is great.

I’d loathe to see all that and more lost if Labour get in.

TheClitterati · 19/02/2023 10:15

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Let's not forget all the institutional capture by gender ideology that has happened while the Tories have been in power & it's not even been their policy.

We must put as much press on tory politicians as all the other fuckers.

ExiledElsie · 19/02/2023 10:08

That the "stupid, pearl-clutching women" might be so much more in favour of gender non-conformity they believed 1) you don't need to lie to accept people and 2) women and girls should be allowed the word "no", just wasn't fathomable.

Inspiring words!

twitterexile · 19/02/2023 10:08

HermioneWeasley · 18/02/2023 22:04

She’s so dense light bends around her

Nutshell.

maranella · 19/02/2023 09:52

Boomboom22 · 18/02/2023 21:31

Thing is although I would never vote Labour on this and other points, the general public either don't get this is happening
Don't believe Labour are for it
Don't care anyway as it won't affect me, not my Nigel etc
So Labour are going to win. We need to get as much momentum in now while the gov backs us so when they win the election thus is a done deal and they cannot row it back again. The recent book will help with that and safeguard etc.

And don't forget all the women out there in high profile roles who are supportive of self ID, men are women if they say they are, women can have penises, etc. I'm always shocked at the number of women who are front and centre screaming about the bigotry of other women in trying to protect our single sex spaces, sports, etc. If all women were united on this issue it would be easy, but many simply don't get it and whatever polling the Labour party have done, they know that.

MarshaBradyo · 19/02/2023 09:44

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2023 09:18

Worth noting how swiftly voting intentions in Scotland swung away from the SNP, after the Pink Leggings Photo.

People can change their minds very quickly when faced with outrageous absurdities like Isla Bryson's ladycock.

An image can be powerful. Thinking of Emily T’s career after the white van pic, poor old Ed M, probably more

Labour can hide from this a bit easier though as they are in opposition. Nightmare for us if they get in first before a stinker

Helleofabore · 19/02/2023 09:39

ResisterRex · 19/02/2023 09:32

There's been some amusing Twitter discussion about Rayner wrt Isla and this article. See this retweet of Hadley Freeman for example. This interview does reveal attitudes about silly mummies and what politicians think of us:

https://twitter.com/hadleyfreeman/status/1627044459434180609?s=46&t=tOLj3c4VvYXRXkFi3pGbaw

https://twitter.com/glosswitch/status/1627235530055249926?s=46&t=tOLj3c4VvYXRXkFi3pGbaw

"So many politicians just comfortably assumed "the stupid women on Mumsnet don't know what they're talking about and probably have some issue with gender non-conformity, which I don't cos I'm much cooler". They felt so comfortable signing up to whatever distanced themselves.

That the "stupid, pearl-clutching women" might be so much more in favour of gender non-conformity they believed 1) you don't need to lie to accept people and 2) women and girls should be allowed the word "no", just wasn't fathomable.

It is a pattern. Whatever the older woman whistleblower is saying, support the opposite, because she's low status. Then later on, claim "no one said anything" - because she's "no one" in your hierarchy.

Women are meant to board a pink bus, "sit down and have a cuppa", explain what issues we care about - but not those ones! Mummies understand care work and the pay gap and boring stuff, but not how all that relates to sex and gender, which is beyond us."

That Glosswitch eh!

PermanentTemporary · 19/02/2023 09:38

@Forgotthebins overall at least in polling, women are more likely to say they accept transwomen as women than men are. It was women who set up the campaign to move that suicidal (and also violent) transwoman prisoner to the female estate a decade or so ago. As I'm an old bag that Rayner would no doubt ignore, the name escapes me - Vicki someone?

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/02/2023 09:34

Helleofabore · 19/02/2023 09:26

And I loved that you texted to ensure you had evidence!!!

ill save them on my phone in case i need to prove it 😀

ElliF · 19/02/2023 09:32

I wonder if Labour, with all their virtue signalling, will ever elect anything other than a privileged straight white male to lead their party?
I don’t vote Tory on principle, but the one things I will give them credit for, they have fielded and put women and minorities into the highest offices in the land. Something Labour would never dare to do.

ResisterRex · 19/02/2023 09:32

There's been some amusing Twitter discussion about Rayner wrt Isla and this article. See this retweet of Hadley Freeman for example. This interview does reveal attitudes about silly mummies and what politicians think of us:

https://twitter.com/hadleyfreeman/status/1627044459434180609?s=46&t=tOLj3c4VvYXRXkFi3pGbaw

https://twitter.com/glosswitch/status/1627235530055249926?s=46&t=tOLj3c4VvYXRXkFi3pGbaw

"So many politicians just comfortably assumed "the stupid women on Mumsnet don't know what they're talking about and probably have some issue with gender non-conformity, which I don't cos I'm much cooler". They felt so comfortable signing up to whatever distanced themselves.

That the "stupid, pearl-clutching women" might be so much more in favour of gender non-conformity they believed 1) you don't need to lie to accept people and 2) women and girls should be allowed the word "no", just wasn't fathomable.

It is a pattern. Whatever the older woman whistleblower is saying, support the opposite, because she's low status. Then later on, claim "no one said anything" - because she's "no one" in your hierarchy.

Women are meant to board a pink bus, "sit down and have a cuppa", explain what issues we care about - but not those ones! Mummies understand care work and the pay gap and boring stuff, but not how all that relates to sex and gender, which is beyond us."

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 19/02/2023 09:26

And I loved that you texted to ensure you had evidence!!!

Helleofabore · 19/02/2023 09:26

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/02/2023 09:16

I made a mistake,

i asked the two who said in the past they would vote labour what they would vote, 1 said labour and the other said spoil their ballot….and that child has been ‘i’ll vote labour’ for a few years now (i had to text them so there was a delay)

I loved that you checked!

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/02/2023 09:25

I say text…one is actually in his bedroom 🤔

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/02/2023 09:23

Datun · 19/02/2023 08:12

Sorry to disappoint but most people think we shouldn't be subjecting incarcerated women to the risk of rape by male sex offenders.

Well not only that datun

as someone pointed out upthread this poster thinks that women should be punished by being raped in prison but men should be rewarded by being able to rape women in prison

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2023 09:18

Worth noting how swiftly voting intentions in Scotland swung away from the SNP, after the Pink Leggings Photo.

People can change their minds very quickly when faced with outrageous absurdities like Isla Bryson's ladycock.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/02/2023 09:16

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 18/02/2023 23:32

Young people are overwhelmingly unlikely to vote Tory at the moment absolutely, 2 of my 3 would vote labour and the other wouldn’t vote tory

Young people are much more likely to believe TWAW all three are very aware TW are not W

I made a mistake,

i asked the two who said in the past they would vote labour what they would vote, 1 said labour and the other said spoil their ballot….and that child has been ‘i’ll vote labour’ for a few years now (i had to text them so there was a delay)

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2023 09:16

howmanybicycles · 19/02/2023 08:52

I don't think it works though. It's still nonsense and I'd not trust any politicians talking like this. KS is apparently going to protect "safe' spaces - single.'sex' spaces afterbyouve redefined sex to be meaningless nonsense.

This. I know I keep banging on about it, but the Labour Sex Fudge is the most dishonest and disingenuous idea I've heard since Sturgeon claimed Bryson was rapistgender.

Labour are claiming that they will support single sex spaces while also claiming that sex is a matter of choice.

Infuriatingly, this pish about 'safe spaces' deliberately omits 'single sex' for a reason.

Labour don't believe in sex. They are genderists all the way down.

highame · 19/02/2023 09:16

Sorry, the Him is Sir John Curtis, pollster extraordinaire

highame · 19/02/2023 09:15

There's an oddity at the moment with how opinion polls are being presented. About a month ago I listened to him talking about the voting splits and he made the comment that there was a large number of 'don't knows' he suggested that this was a larger amount than usual. It seems that many of these 'don't knows' are fed up of the Tories but equally don't trust Labour. It seems that this large number and I think it has been around 30% is what can screw up any certainties.

It adds a little interest to the debate and might also be why KS is a bit jumpy about people getting too sure about a win for Labour.

Boomboom22 · 19/02/2023 09:06

Another reason labour will get in, spoiling the ballot is the same as voting for Labour. The tories are almost trying to get out with their current performance. Not that anyone really wants the current incarnation to stay. If only the wep had gone the way I thought it would but no totally captured. I didn't expect that of sandi.

SinnerBoy · 19/02/2023 09:06

LizzieSiddal · Today 08:21

Transwoman equals a man with a cock is now clearly established with the public.

There are still a lot of people who think: Fake trans trying to get an easy ride in jail, real trans, lovely and fluffy.

Calmdown14 · 19/02/2023 09:04

Much as I did not support Nicola sturgeon's divisive politics, she is a very good politician. She ran rings round everyone (apart from perhaps Ruth Davidson) and was as competent at dealing with the press or a difficult question as anyone I've ever seen.

And yet this reduced her to a bumbling idiot. Because you cannot square the city, particularly when you actively rejected amendments to avoid situations like Isla Bryson.

I don't think this is ultimately the cause of her departure though and agree with PP that this is the time to keep up the pressure.
The leaked Stewart MacDonald emails are rumoured to contain information which might shed more light.

I have little faith in polling for labour if they can't get this right. I quite like Keir Starmer and suspect (bit like Nicola) that he isn't fully in this but didn't want to challenge the more difficult aspects of his party or lose the young vote.

I grew up in the same area as Angela Raynor and she should represent me but I find her cringe worthy.

bellinisurge · 19/02/2023 08:59

She's so shit. I'm so disappointed they can't find a better woman to be deputy.
If she thinks "be kind" is still going to cut it come election time, she's delusional.
Kellie-Jay Keen is going to stand against Starmer in his constituency. If they think they can bluster their way through a news cycle and forget it, they will get a nasty wake up call.
Did they not see what happened to Sturgeon. Yes I know there are lots of factors that sank her but this was one. In broad daylight.
Life long Labour voter since 1987 (until Corbyn). Currently a ballot paper spoiler until someone gives me a reason not to.

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