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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

STURGEON IS QUITTING

986 replies

Clymene · 15/02/2023 09:59

Just seen on BBC headlines

OP posts:
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15
ResisterRex · 16/02/2023 14:25

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2023 14:24

The Scotsman AT TheScotsman
Nicola Sturgeon has admitted she is "deeply" worried about women being put off entering politics due to the levels of abuse, misogyny and threats of sexual violence experienced on social media by those who "put their heads above the parapet".

FFS.
She didn't have an epiphany did she?

Nah. That's self-pity.

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2023 14:24

The Scotsman AT TheScotsman
Nicola Sturgeon has admitted she is "deeply" worried about women being put off entering politics due to the levels of abuse, misogyny and threats of sexual violence experienced on social media by those who "put their heads above the parapet".

FFS.
She didn't have an epiphany did she?

ArabellaScott · 16/02/2023 14:16

😂

Cottagecheeseisnotcheese · 16/02/2023 14:01

Tim Farron was also an evangelical christian and for him he was repeatedely harrassed by the media on the issue as if it was the only issue, but for him and most other Christians and people of other faiths too, principles of faith matter more than political expediency.
I understand how people can actually admire those that are firm in their principles even when they disagree with those principles. Kate Forbe has principles in a way that Boris never had, he would change like the weather for votes etc, you can be against something on a personal level and still treat people with dignity and fairness. Most people who have any kind of interaction with the public will be dealing with people whose lifestyles and beliefs they fundamentally disagree with regularly.
you can disagree with veganism, gay marriage, nuclear weapons, anti-vaxxers etc etc without treating people who believe in this things any less favourably. You can protect peoples rights whilst disagreeing with how they uphold that right. You can uphold someone's right to free speech without agreeing or indeed fundamentally disagreeing with what they say

Chersfrozenface · 16/02/2023 13:58

ArabellaScott · 16/02/2023 13:46

𝖉𝖆𝖗𝖐 𝖋𝖔𝖗𝖈𝖊𝖘 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝖐𝖎𝖉𝖓𝖆𝖕𝖕𝖊𝖉 𝖈𝖔𝖒𝖎𝖈 𝖘𝖆𝖓𝖘

😂

Violetparis · 16/02/2023 13:54

If/when the SNP drop the GRR there is going to be a huge backlash from TRAs, will be interesting to see how they and those SNP MPs who are their most vocal supporters react.

ArabellaScott · 16/02/2023 13:51

I don't know much about Kate Forbes, but I have read that she is relatively libertarian in her views. As in, she believes in a plurality of views and a govt that represents that. I'm afraid I don't have the quote to hand, though.

Signalbox · 16/02/2023 13:49

ArabellaScott · 16/02/2023 13:46

𝖉𝖆𝖗𝖐 𝖋𝖔𝖗𝖈𝖊𝖘 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝖐𝖎𝖉𝖓𝖆𝖕𝖕𝖊𝖉 𝖈𝖔𝖒𝖎𝖈 𝖘𝖆𝖓𝖘

😳😬😵😱

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 13:48

I liked Farron too, and think he shouldn't have resigned.

The difference between him and Forbes (as far as I can tell so far), is he explicitly acknowledged that he personally was a Christian, but that he had to represent the interests of a broad group of people. I felt he could separate the two - personal vs public.

All I've seen with Forbes is an explicit absolute statement that her church and faith is central to her existence, and that she has to be honest about that and people must know that.

She wasn't in favour of GRR, but was that because of women's rights, or because 'God made men men and women women'? I don't know. I'm not especially supportive of the 'God' approach to this because 'God' is also used to define same sex relationships as an abomination. And justify women staying in restrictive roles etc.

I don't know enough about her to know if she is like Farron. And I don't think she's driven by hate and prejudice like Trump. But the Bible, taken literally, is EVERYTHING in the Free Church. Way more so than with liberal Christians.

ArabellaScott · 16/02/2023 13:46

𝖉𝖆𝖗𝖐 𝖋𝖔𝖗𝖈𝖊𝖘 𝖍𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝖐𝖎𝖉𝖓𝖆𝖕𝖕𝖊𝖉 𝖈𝖔𝖒𝖎𝖈 𝖘𝖆𝖓𝖘

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2023 13:38

And, given my previous profession, I do have to say that Comic Sans is the work of the devil and is the work of dark forces.

Its presence on primary school or nursery artwork of any kind should be written into law as a criminal offence.

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2023 13:32

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 12:19

Absolutely fair enough.

Nevertheless, I won't vote for someone who thinks abortion is murder, and homosexuality is a sin, even if Wee Frees deserve representation. Nor will I vote for a party headed by someone who has those views.

I am also of the opinion that Trumps views on women matter, even if sexists are entitled to representation. And of course they are ... but ...

See this is where I think Tim Farron is relevant.

He has personal beliefs I don't like nor share, but he still thinks that there shouldn't be discrimination on some of those issues and takes a more nuanced (and yes controversial) view than puritans would like.

But is that really any different to some elements of the debate over the conflict between women's rights / trans rights?

He's been absoluetely hauled over the coals over it (and ultimatedly resigned as leader) because his views aren't pure enough for his party's tastes. But I don't think he ever actively discriminated and had more of a live and let live attitude.

I think its a difficult area but I'm mindful of the right to hold a belief even if its one we don't like is one we need to support and to realise that holding that belief doesn't necessarily mean moral superiority or a desire to activately discriminate. Just a desire to think differently and live our own lives in a particular way. Because its that recognition by the courts that 'its a bit more complicated than that' that has upheld the right to be Gender Critical and upheld freedom of speech.

And I don't think Farron was ever a 'one issue' politician hell bent on destroying the rights of others. He took on board majority views and realised it was his job to represent a wide range of views rather than merely evangelise and impose his views. Thats very different to Trump is / was. I guess my point is, is Kate Forbes more Farron or more Trump?

I had a certain amount of time for Farron in a way I wouldn't ever have for Trump. One isn't belligerent, but the other is. There is a difference.

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2023 13:11

I suspect The Fail report is most likely true. Its also my suspicion too.

Sturgeon didn't meantion the GRR once in her speech. And the rumour is she wants to try and go into some kind of human rights / lgbt rights role after this. So you'd think that she'd want to stress her commitment to trans rights but didn't. She did keep going on about women's rights though - which for me suggests she knows she's politically wounded on that and thats the noteworthy bit especially as she also kept on talking about her commitment to independence....

The way the GRR has been handled is dreadful, and Sturgeon pretty much walked straight into a political trap with it. By ploughing ahead with it, to the point Westminster intervened she created a problem for the SNP that was political suicide for her. She tied the GRR to Independence in a battle that almost inevitability is doomed to fail. She inadvertedly linked independence to a bill which is tarnished by the growing spectre of children being harmed and the concept of female rapists, murderers and paedos with penises in women's prisons. Not exactly a public winning combo to muster support for independence. I think if you made a list of things not to link to your main political ambition, looking like you support harming children, rapists and murderers is pretty close to the top of faux pas and things you would be mad to risk. Yet, Sturgeon has managed to play a blinder and played her best Top Trump card here. That takes some mighty skill to fuck up that badly. I suspect there are many SNP supporters slow hand clapping and joining conga lines celebrating her departure.

Her actions had meant for the SNP, they ultimately put themselves in a position where it was a choice to continue to keep going with the GRR and put the already stalled and blocked pursuit for another referredum and the chances of a yes vote OR drop the GRR and work to try and make progress and focus on independence again.

Ultimately I think it comes down to whether Gender Rights are more important than Independence for the SNP because of the way Sturgeon has handled it and the Tories have blocked her move to overrule Westminster. Thats never going to be a contest. (Its an interesting dynamic to watch with the Greens btw - they have a similar conflict. But not necessarily a problem that the LDs have)

It was a power over reach which damages the Independence Movement and thats the red line for the grassroots SNP. Its not opposition within the party to the GRR thats killed it - its the linkage to fucking up the prospects of independence.

Coupled with a financial scandal in the offing and other controversies lurking in the wings, I very much doubt Sturgeon could have survived the storm of trying to go ahead with it. Hence jumping before pushed after reading the room and realising the writing on the wall.

If the priority for the SNP, is indeed, independence and going head to head with Westminster in an attempted power over reach (which I suspect lawyers have looked at and suggested is going to be difficult to win in court and is also paying a part in Sturgeon's decision making), the natural outcome would be to try and quietly drop the GRR in a damage limitation exercise to Independence ambitions.

My thought is that it leaves the GRR in its current form dead.

Its possible that it could be revived after a General Election in some form so I don't think its buried. But I think by then we will be at a point where sunlight has been shone in even greater depth on the Tavistock and the rapist clause isn't going anywhere fast. I think that means that Self ID if it does start to be pushed by a possible Labour government (possibly with SNP support north of the border if the SNP maintain their dominance there) its going to have to include a fair few exceptions or nuance clauses.

That might actually make it harder to stop in the long run - but it might take out some of the worst elements of it and give Women's Rights groups crucial time to make their case and be heard by the public to a greater degree.

And in the interim I think theres a fair chance of more scandal emerging from poor handling of conflicting rights and how its also sparking a backlash that isn't necessarily in the interests of those who identify as trans.

My expectation is something will problem be back on the table in the next two years - probably now lead from Westminster itself, but its not going to be the proposals we are currently seeing.

And I would imagine that the way things unravel and public reception to these stories will be being carefully watched.

I suspect Sturgeon isn't much of a chess player because she really didn't see all the moving pieces.

Chersfrozenface · 16/02/2023 13:09

SinnerBoy · 16/02/2023 13:01

I no longer trust anything the Graun says.

Chersfrozenface · 16/02/2023 13:00

FFS! I put an apostrophe in 'its'.

Caffeine, stat.

OMG12 · 16/02/2023 12:56

Can you put a yoda quote on the back?

”When you look at the dark side, careful you must be.”

Gothic script defo

Chersfrozenface · 16/02/2023 12:54

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 16/02/2023 12:49

?

Oh. now Gothic would make my metalhead son so jealous.

Apparently there was a Russian thrash metal band called Dark Force, but it's status is currently unknown. Don't think they'll be threatening copyright suits.

SinnerBoy · 16/02/2023 12:53

OMG12 · Today 12:43

Are we more or less satanic than a fat geezer in leather and a top hat though??
Without a photograph to peruse, I'm unable to form a meaningful opinion, sorry.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 16/02/2023 12:49

?

STURGEON IS QUITTING
STURGEON IS QUITTING
STURGEON IS QUITTING
STURGEON IS QUITTING
Chersfrozenface · 16/02/2023 12:49

SinnerBoy · 16/02/2023 12:40

Not Wingdings.

Nor Comic Sans.

A cursive one - a link with letter writing?

MarshaBradyo · 16/02/2023 12:44

Chersfrozenface · 16/02/2023 12:37

I may get a T shirt.

I AM A DARK FORCE
or just
DARK FORCE

What font should I go for?

Gothic

OMG12 · 16/02/2023 12:43

SinnerBoy · 16/02/2023 12:33

Writing letters?!! What an outrage! Who DO they think they are?!!

so basically they’re re running the Eve-destroyer of worlds, corrupter of men story? The woman whose quest for knowledge and reality apparently led to the downfall of man? - oh well😂😂😂

Are we more or less satanic than a fat geezer in leather and a top hat though??

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 16/02/2023 12:42

Chersfrozenface · 16/02/2023 12:37

I may get a T shirt.

I AM A DARK FORCE
or just
DARK FORCE

What font should I go for?

Old English 😬

SinnerBoy · 16/02/2023 12:40

Not Wingdings.