Wikipedia on "cotton ceiling"

There was a workshop called 'Overcoming The Cotton Ceiling’. The term may have been coined as a parody of the term 'the glass ceiling' (a structural bias against women progressing in the workplace.)
grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/overcoming-the-cotton-ceiling-annotated

Its yet another example of men claiming they are oppressed and victimised by women's boundaries, which is at least one of the rules of misogyny.

Yeah this is rather like re framing the French Revolution as an incident where the aristocracy solved their marginalisation by voluntarily shortening themselves by a head.

The motivation of TW in wanting to date lesbians is because it’s the ultimate validation of themselves as women. As usual, the woman in question is merely a prop for a male without any recognition of her by the latter as a full human with her own agency, wishes, dreams and desires.

The term "cotton ceiling" really wasn't created with good intentions in mind. This is all about men coercing women into having sex with them by guilt-tripping them. It's another manifestation of the Andrew Tate phenomenon. To put it at its kindest, the term "cotton ceiling" is ludicrous. But worse than that, it is a deeply misogynistic term that embodies rape culture. The idea that it has any sort of traction at all amongst wellbeing people is disturbing.

Another awful idea occurred to me on this bizarre issue: maybe a man who coerces a lesbian into a relationship isn't going to have a risk of her being unfaithful to him with another man. Of course she's potentially going to seek another woman, but many men don't consider sex without the presence of a phallus as genuine.

I'm trying to understand motives in men wanting access to lesbians. Every possibility is nasty.

Trans people marginalised in LGB spaces of the sex they ID into?

Of course they are - they don't belong there! Why should anybody centre an invader or coloniser?

Created with good intentions?

Scheming how to get into the pants of someone who does not want you there, describing lack of consent as a barrier to be broken through, those are not in any way good intentions. Those are malign.

That can’t be changed and they need to come to terms with that.

Like their sex.

Securing lesbian partners.

Boke.

males with a trans identity may be marginalised in dating circles. This is not womens problem and especially not for lesbians. Using a term like ‘cotton ceiling’ to imply it is somehow womens fault no one will date these males is coercive and manipulative. Why should a lesbian sleep with a male because he claims to be a woman?

males with a trans identity must accept that ‘finding their true selves’ means they lose some things.

I see. I did not watch the video so you very well may be right. Perhaps I am giving them too much credit. It’s sad that they see things that way. It’s an unfortunate reality that I think many trans people don’t think through when they transition. The fact is that most people are sexually attracted to people who’s gender aligns with their birth sex. That can’t be changed and they need to come to terms with that. Trying to force things is going down a dark path of sexual abuse.

Good intentions would be discussing the difficulties in dating/having sexual relationships while trans and how to cope with these struggles, not falling into the homophobic BS that came out of that workshop.

But it’s well known the person who came up with the concept was bent out of shape because lesbians involved in the porn industry didn’t want to have scenes with them. I saw the immediate aftermath that happened after this workshop came to light, there was never any good intentions beyond acting as a way to coerce and guilt trip lesbians. It’s been a poisoned concept from the very start.

In my opinion it’s a bit of a grey area. Trans women DO face marginalization in LGB spaces. Some of it is called for and some of it is not. I think it was created with good intentions in mind to describe the situations that are not called for but was poorly thought out as they clearly grew up with male privilege and have no idea about the experiences that natural born women go through.

To lesbians and bisexual women it’s symbolic of sexual coercion and rightfully so. As trans identifying male people who have dark intentions took that and ran with it and used it as ammunition against women.

This article from 4W came to mind.

4w.pub/these-men-were-promised-lesbians/

@Redebs just seen you misread! Thought you were implying that as he’s a man of course everyone should find them attractive 😂

Well yes exactly my point? Why would a lesbian be interested in a man? If they were, by definition they’d no long be a lesbian

Odd, there are 12 references but not this one.

Christ they are so bloody entitled, everyone has the right to say no, and no other justification is necessary. Maybe its only women that really and truely understand that.

Apologies, I couldn’t see a link so here’s one.

Too right it's unacceptable!

But unacceptable things have names. People do named things that are unacceptable.

The list of references contains a number of interesting sources! I somehow doubt that Julie Bindel and Heather Brunskell-Evans were waxing lyrical over the poor menz and their hurts feelings…

So why isn't it seen as problematic for men to insist on sexual access to lesbians?
Is it because men feel entitled? Can't handle rejection? Don't care if a woman doesn't desire him as long as she submits?
All of these are totally unacceptable.

Isn't 'cotton ceiling' the coercers' term? Why would it be defined from a lesbian perspective? It's a bit like expecting the definition of christening to be given from a biologist's perspective.

Of course it is an offensive term which objectifies lesbians.

I wonder whether any other things that are seen very differently by different people are given multiple definitions in one Wikipedia article?

Oops, misread as attracted to.
Just getting my reading glasses...

I've never seen so many references in the first few words of an article. It's quite comical.

It's almost as if they want to distract from the next sentence and reference [12]...

That is what it says?