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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Handmaid, Handmaiden.

283 replies

CandlelightGlow · 10/02/2023 18:38

Can someone explain why it's been deemed appropriate to call women who appear to be defending men or considering men in any capacity, handmaids?

Does it mean something else that I'm not aware of? My understanding is it comes from the Margaret Atwood novels, referring to women who are forced into ritualistic rape, pregnancy and childbirth.

How exactly does it link to a woman who in one's opinion, chooses to serve the patriarchy. Is it a term feminists should ever use? There is a strong connotation of victim blaming if you are choosing to refer to another woman as a willing handmaid. How is it justifiable?

I'm not asking for examples of when you would consider someone fitting the definition of "handmaiden". I've seen this term thrown around on a couple of threads recently and I'm concerned that it's become a term used largely by women, to insult other women, often in the context of feminist discussions, and I find it interesting that given this very particular context, it's deemed acceptable to use? Again, given the highly misogynistic connotation feeding into the "willing female victim" narrative that already plagues patriarchal rhetoric.

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CandlelightGlow · 10/02/2023 20:54

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 10/02/2023 20:53

My understanding is it comes from the Margaret Atwood novels

But you've failed to establish that it does.

'Handmaid/Handmaiden of the ...' was a common term long before the Atwood book. And the way it was most commonly used in the first half of the 20th century - the usage that both Atwood and the 2nd wave feminists would have grown up with - was entirely un gendered. Indeed, it was mostly used for concepts rather than people. It described concepts that were deployed in service and support of other concepts - philosophy, statistics, public health. So applying it to those upholding and reinforcing the patriarchy would have been a natural extension.

This was actually discussed in the first couple of pages of the thread.

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ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 10/02/2023 20:54

CandlelightGlow · 10/02/2023 20:50

Can you stop gatekeeping feminism please? Young women can be feminists. Old women can be feminists. Girls can be feminists.

You may choose to not acknowledge that the popularity of the show has brought terms like Handmaid and Aunt Lydia more into popular culture, but it's not sensible nor true.

Young women can be feminists but they can’t just handwave away feminist history because someone called them a handmaiden and it made them feel bad.

CandlelightGlow · 10/02/2023 20:53

EndlessTea · 10/02/2023 20:51

I’ll say what I like.

Good for you. I'll say what I like too, so I'll say it again. You can't gatekeep feminism. We are just as entitled to express our views, regardless of age, and it's blatant misogyny and ageism that just because you're older than I am, my views are invalid. God help feminism if there's people like you telling young women they can't be part of the club 🙄🙄

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BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 10/02/2023 20:53

My understanding is it comes from the Margaret Atwood novels

But you've failed to establish that it does.

'Handmaid/Handmaiden of the ...' was a common term long before the Atwood book. And the way it was most commonly used in the first half of the 20th century - the usage that both Atwood and the 2nd wave feminists would have grown up with - was entirely un gendered. Indeed, it was mostly used for concepts rather than people. It described concepts that were deployed in service and support of other concepts - philosophy, statistics, public health. So applying it to those upholding and reinforcing the patriarchy would have been a natural extension.

ClaphamSouth · 10/02/2023 20:53

I don't agree that there are victim blaming connotations to 'handmaiden'. I think what you understand as victim blaming I understand as an acknowledgment of their knowing and deliberate complicity.

BlessedKali · 10/02/2023 20:52

It's a pretty heartwrenching book..its fucked up.... It played on my mind for a long time, I imagined being in the position of the main character.... And for some time I was actually worried that's where all this madness could have gone... that women are nothing but a costume and some of us are reduced to reproductive machines...

So I do understand the OP's reluctance to use the word (when taken in this context)

If we think of the handmaids tale, in some ways this TRA females are more like the wives of the men in the Handmaid's Tale...

YES i understand it was a feminist term previous to this, but culture shifts happen and words change, and certain meaninga become widespread (Not the word woman though ;) )

I like dick- panderer

LexMitior · 10/02/2023 20:52

Fair point @ShireWifeofNigelFarage

FKATondelayo · 10/02/2023 20:52

I worked on the launch of THT TV show in the UK and the idea that it has wide cultural currency in the UK outside feminists of both lib and rad variety is laughable. It's a niche arthouse drama.

When people outside the bubble hear 'handmaiden' they mean you know, someone who's a maid of the intimate variety.

AdamRyan · 10/02/2023 20:52

It might have negative connotations, but there are no victim blaming connotations.

You keep ignoring the point about the dictionary definition of handmaiden: a person or thing that serves a useful but subordinate purpose - logic is the handmaid of philosophy

Lots of words change in usage and have a root in some kind of problematic human behaviour. Why is this one more of an issue?

I suppose (without knowing what you said) if you don't want to be called a handmaid, don't say handmaid-y things.

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 10/02/2023 20:51

LexMitior · 10/02/2023 20:48

You could call such women Sturgeons?

like the verb form of ‘Sturgeoning’ but I suspect that describes inventing a new sex class called ‘Rapists’ rather than more general handmaidening?

EndlessTea · 10/02/2023 20:51

CandlelightGlow · 10/02/2023 20:50

Can you stop gatekeeping feminism please? Young women can be feminists. Old women can be feminists. Girls can be feminists.

You may choose to not acknowledge that the popularity of the show has brought terms like Handmaid and Aunt Lydia more into popular culture, but it's not sensible nor true.

I’ll say what I like.

CandlelightGlow · 10/02/2023 20:50

EndlessTea · 10/02/2023 20:49

Have you been part of feminist subculture for a while?

Can you stop gatekeeping feminism please? Young women can be feminists. Old women can be feminists. Girls can be feminists.

You may choose to not acknowledge that the popularity of the show has brought terms like Handmaid and Aunt Lydia more into popular culture, but it's not sensible nor true.

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LexMitior · 10/02/2023 20:49

Nikklasturgeons

EndlessTea · 10/02/2023 20:49

BlessedKali · 10/02/2023 20:48

I am 32, i have never seen the show, i read the book a long time ago. I associate the word with Atwood.

So it is nothing to do with being an adult before that show..I just think Atwoods book (as well as the show) has had far more of a cultural impact and wide reach than the feminist version...

Have you been part of feminist subculture for a while?

AdamRyan · 10/02/2023 20:49

LexMitior · 10/02/2023 20:48

You could call such women Sturgeons?

Love it
Although a bit insulting to the original fish sturgeons

CandlelightGlow · 10/02/2023 20:48

AdamRyan · 10/02/2023 20:44

TERF might be used as an insult to women, but there it's not a term that has victim blaming connotations. There's no word in there that means something else, there's no literary background to it which would give a misogynistic context to the term.
Hmm. Disagree. TERF aligns "radical feminist" with a distorted shorthand of what feminists think, that on the surface makes them sound unreasonable to most people. "Trans exclusionary" doesn't actually mean what it says on the tin. It means "doesn't believe trans women are women" not "excludes trans people and believes they shouldn't exist".
And of course being labelled a "feminist" has a long history of being used as an insult, connotations of being angry, unreasonable, man hating etc. Lots of women actively avoid the label despite believing women should be treated equally to men.

You know this. So don't pretend handmaid is worse somehow because it isn't.

There is no singular word in the acronym TERF that compares to the use of Handmaid which has a defined meaning as referring to women specifically as servants and, in the context it's being used on the internet, sex slaves.

It might have negative connotations, but there are no victim blaming connotations.

Also why does one have to quantify which is worse? They are both in my opinion, used as misogynistic insults, and therefore I would use neither.

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BlessedKali · 10/02/2023 20:48

I am 32, i have never seen the show, i read the book a long time ago. I associate the word with Atwood.

So it is nothing to do with being an adult before that show..I just think Atwoods book (as well as the show) has had far more of a cultural impact and wide reach than the feminist version...

LexMitior · 10/02/2023 20:48

You could call such women Sturgeons?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/02/2023 20:47

Also bluntly why should we not call out women who are blatantly chucking women under the bus in their rush to support men however they present - looking at you sturgeon!

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 10/02/2023 20:45

Deputy Assistant to the Dick-Holders?

EndlessTea · 10/02/2023 20:45

I’ve just checked, it was serialised on TV in 2017. Six years ago, so I imagine it would be only pretty young people who wouldn’t have heard the usage before.

CandlelightGlow · 10/02/2023 20:45

BlessedKali · 10/02/2023 20:41

Yes , you may think it has nothing to do with 'The Handmaid's Tale' and maybe it originally doesn't, but it's very possible that to most people that is how it appears.

Yes this is the context I've been seeing it - it's quite a big show so I'm confused as to why people are unilaterally claiming that no one is using it in this context!

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BlessedKali · 10/02/2023 20:45

Or, they are more aware of Atwoods book than of a feminist term?

But yea, it is far more likely that the majority of people associate this term with Atwood than with it's previous feminist usage.

In which case it is fair point to say thay its a bit pf a confusing term...

AdamRyan · 10/02/2023 20:44

TERF might be used as an insult to women, but there it's not a term that has victim blaming connotations. There's no word in there that means something else, there's no literary background to it which would give a misogynistic context to the term.
Hmm. Disagree. TERF aligns "radical feminist" with a distorted shorthand of what feminists think, that on the surface makes them sound unreasonable to most people. "Trans exclusionary" doesn't actually mean what it says on the tin. It means "doesn't believe trans women are women" not "excludes trans people and believes they shouldn't exist".
And of course being labelled a "feminist" has a long history of being used as an insult, connotations of being angry, unreasonable, man hating etc. Lots of women actively avoid the label despite believing women should be treated equally to men.

You know this. So don't pretend handmaid is worse somehow because it isn't.

LexMitior · 10/02/2023 20:44

It's mysterious. It's like bursting into a local bar and declaring your total opposition and that you must not be called anything you don't like