Women are only as safe as their male partner allows them to be

Ah I get it, anti-trans people are moderators, that’s why there’s such a proliferation of anti-trans rhetoric on MN. Suddenly it all makes sense 🙄.

Absolutely this. And it ties into pickle's post about male inadequacy in relationships being the norm and therefore early warning behaviours being ignored. I used to judge my mum for not managing my dad's behaviour well enough and now I think that was my internalised misogyny.

Mumsnet and FDS are a wealth of resources on the signs of abusive behaviour but for it's often a case of too little, too late. Young women need more cultural, real life training on men, Lundy Bancroft style, in the same way that parents drum it into their children not to get into a car with a stranger.

I don't want to belittle your experience but I really don't think it's that much easier now. My husband was one of those men who's true abusiveness came to the fore when I was pregnant. I can look back now and see all of the red flags before that but I back then I justified it and thought it wasn't really his fault. But it escalated off the charts once I was pregnant and when DS was newborn and I wouldn't allow DS to live like that, so I left him.

However I can't divorce him because he would get some amount of unsupervised custody and there is no way I'll ever risk going to court. Decades ago he would have been less likely to get that type of custody and he probably wouldn't have even gone to court. Repeatedly taking their exes to court for custody is currently a very common tactic for abusers. Courts are massively swayed by the argument of parental alienation and place children in the custody of dangerous parents all the time.

So while I get to live apart from my husband, I've spent over a decade, managing that relationship to keep my DS safe. I'm a generally happy person but that fact is that I live in a type of limbo because the court system would absolutely not protect my DS. If we had done all this 20 years before, I'd have been probably have been divorced before DS started school.

That is not what I meant. Please don't put words in my mouth. No woman being abused is silly. That is not what I was getting at. I'm sorry if that's how it came across.

Well said.

Trans activists are asking our daughters to remove their spidery senses about men and accept them in women’s spaces. So yes it is highly appropriate to mention it here. My daughter has her spidery senses intact and will continue with them intact.

What you are forgetting is that the main reason women are mostly at risk from men they know is ease of access. If you are a violent man, it is much easier to attack the women whose space you share, whose routine you know.

What misogynists are asking for in the name of trans activism amounts to giving ALL males (self ID) more access to women. By destroying both the social convention and the right for women to have single sex spaces at times they are vulnerable.

This is something long understood by feminists and the left wing but sadly we seem to be importing a US hyper individualistic, capitalist version of "feminism" that refuses to understand class analysis lest it result in having to treat marginalised people better.

@lightspeeds I grew up watching my dm being mistreated by my f. So I swore I would never rely on a man for anything, and I haven't.

Worked my arse off through my 20s and 30s, had ds in my 40s when I had an established career and was a decade into a mortgage.

And actually, it's less expensive living without a man. They waste so much money on ego stuff.

It's sad women should have to adopt such a strategy but it means me & ds and safe, secure, happy, relaxed. No-one to pull the rug from under our feet.

🙄 you don’t get it do you

I disagree, TW are male born after all, and offend at the exact same rates as non TW.

Lack of proper financial support is also trapping people in relationships they should leave. All these factors need to be addressed to tackle male violence.

Of course not and there are many TW who are not physically violent to women and some who vocally say TW are not W. But the violence that is accepted by TRAs (threats to kill and decapitate TERFS etc) is part of the problem as is men being allowed into women's spaces because it shows that women are not regarded as important. Reclaiming single sense spaces and recognising how unacceptable is to say a TW is a W will not solve male violence but male violence can't be solved whilst that is considered acceptable. The problem is that the way women are seen hides, fornsome people, the aggression which is essential in gender ideology.

@BordoisAgain this was the kind of point I was making. Thank you xx

None of these men needed to look or act like women to be violent, rape, or murder their victims. Give it a rest with your anti-trans agenda- if all you transphobes put your effort into campaigning to end male violence against women instead of against 0.2% of the population maybe this topic would actually be in the headlines and something would be done.

Totally agree** with this.

So much more important fights to fight.

Violent porn is absolutely damaging young people

Men are arguably our greatest predator. That poster’s comment obviously made you feel awkward as you reacted strangely to it. But that’s rather the point, it’s utterly disturbing, because it’s true.

Because the TRAs can't help but make everything about them

Positive or negative, it doesn't matter.
Its all about them

My patience with it has gone. They can fuck off

Very eye opening when you put it like that. I’m not a man hater (despite their bad treatment of me in the past) but I no longer date, pursue, want or need a relationship and am much happier for it. I don’t see myself ever having a relationship of any kind ever again.

I'm not a transphobe but you do appear to be a femphobe. Male.violence is a huge problem and an example of it is appropriating.my experiences and my history. If we want to end male violence (which i do) then one aspect of that is not accepting any male saying he's a woman. Be a TW sure. They're never a woman.

Sorry, no, I won’t @chupachump

If it’s OK for you to disagree with people, it’s OK for people to disagree with you.

This is on the sex/gender forum. If you don't want mention of women's rights in relation to single sex spaces, and how these relate to Emma and Lettie Pattinson's murder, you should find a discussion on another forum.

How do you manage financially? A lot of families can't manage on two wages never mind one.

howmanybicycles
And the men in society are currently not allowing any women to be safe because they'd much rather give men who identify as women more rights. It's sickening to see that people can't connect the dots. Men are being taught that women don't matter.

None of these men needed to look or act like women to be violent, rape, or murder their victims. Give it a rest with your anti-trans agenda- if all you transphobes put your effort into campaigning to end male violence against women instead of against 0.2% of the population maybe this topic would actually be in the headlines and something would be done.

This this this! Spot on.

I agree with this.

I took my children away from a controlling nasty violent man as soon as I could, over 20 years ago when that was harder even than it still is now. I have remained single since. My sons are good men- good partners and fathers, contribute well to society. I now know so so many miserable people who will not leave because it would have such a dramatic effect on their standard of living.
I've always been poor. But for the last 20+ years, happy.
I don't hate men at all- just don't want to sacrifice my happiness for one.