Scottish police defy Nicola Sturgeon over trans self-ID law

Yes I think this too.

The timing could well not be a coincidence.

Erm. I really don't think it works that way. They don't check opinion polls or consult their public image adviser before deciding whether to commit a crime.

Acknowledging that, I still think there's something weirdly unhinged about the timing of this. More unhinged than normal (also acknowledging that abducting a child isn't normal). This bloke was politically savvy re GRR bill, so it would surprise me if he wasn't following the rest of the news afterwards.

you'd think after the Isla Bryson affair every TW with criminal tendencies would be more wary of public mood.

Erm. I really don't think it works that way. They don't check opinion polls or consult their public image adviser before deciding whether to commit a crime.

Particularly important for sex-related crimes (which are frequently not first offences), because it can give other victims or witnesses encouragement to come forward.

I wondered if it could also possibly be that the fact the GRR bill has been stopped has stirred something up in the TW more prone to aggressive behaviour. Maybe? The timing baffles me too: you'd think after the Isla Bryson affair every TW with criminal tendencies would be more wary of public mood.

Interesting. I wonder how Sturgeon will deal with the inevitable questions.

The child's photo and name has been made public as she was reported missing. BBC Scotland published her name and photo on Twitter saying she had been found 'safe and well'. I hope she came to no harm.

It is usual for name, age, area, occupation to be given when there's an arrest or a charge I'm sure.

I hope NS can be asked in very general terms without naming the victim or the suspect how this has happened. How has this suspect being referred to as male by the Police in pressed releases when they have 'lived as a woman' for a number of years.

It is surely a matter of public interest to know what is going on from a policy perspective which can be discussed without jeopardising any future criminal proceedings.

People often know a lot about suspects and it is not unusual for politicians to be asked to comment before a trial commences. The comparison that springs to mind is the fact that Sarah Everard's killer was a Met Police Officer was able to be discussed before trial.

lifeturnsonadime

thanks

I think it's best MM err on the side of caution. We don't want to prejudice the trial and allow him to get away with this.

It was deleted for breaking talk guidelines. No further comment was made.

Bbc Scotland called him a man. Didn’t mention trans at all

I wonder if these things have been happening all along

The 'it never happens' thread shows that it has. No coincidental timing needed, just the press turning to look in that direction.

I definitely haven't seen the alleged victim ID'd. If it was on the other thread in this section then it was pulled before I saw it. But this is not the only thread on MN as a whole and I saw one (which I won't link to) that I thought went much further than the FWR one did as at the last time I saw it.

How alleged crime is reported and how alleged perpetrators are described to the public is plainly a very important concern to the detection and prevention of crime. Obscuring relevant detail - be it by the police or the media, or our politicians- is wrong. Doing that stops the detection and prevention - and prosecution - of crime.

It's quite simple I think and there are many cases that show, had it not been for the relevant detail and information being put in the public domain, the detection and prevention, and prosecution of crime would not have been achieved.

Also he has now been charged which brings additional rules into play.

The Record have obscured the images in case identity is an issue at trial but it is quite clever to still include the two photos pixelated as it tells a certain story without needing to show it.

You got a laugh out of me today. A day when my period just started (and I have a pad because I am boycotting tampax until they use a woman to promote their products and not a man who thinks he is a girl) and I am still reeling from yesterdays male violence on women news. Well done x

I don't see how the press calling transwomen, men, would help Nicola Sturgeon. She's stuffed either way.

Calling them women hits a wall when she cant agree they go to a woman's prison due to the nature of their crime.

And calling them men blows an instant hole through the concept of self id.

I think the Telegraph have reported it this way so that it's about a clash of policy and not about the alleged offence.

They have to get round contempt of court rules. This will have been carefully considered.

The issue that needs to be pushed is how are gender identities reported and recorded by the police. NS can be pushed on this without reference to a specific crime (although we all know what we are talking about).

As I said on the pulled thread, there will be some odd reporting around this because we know the identity of an underage victim. That will constrain what can be written as really she should be anonymous.

Yesterday the news round up on Today programme quoted a Times article I haven't seen as saying : For Nicola Sturgeon there are three sexes - male, female and rapist.
It did make me smile.
Do we now have four sexes?
male, female, rapist and butcher?

It's too early in the morning for me to get clever with words but the old nursery rhyme about the butcher, baker and candlestick maker is springing to mind.

Ok. It was stuff he himself has said tho. I won't link but it's out there.

I am looking for it too? It was on FWR wasn’t it?

I think we should tread with extreme caution here. We're all thinking the same thing, but we need to let it play out per usual legal process or it looks dangerously like a gleeful witch hunt.

I saw quite a few twitter posts last night which were pretty much 'gotcha!' but an 11 year old girl is a crime victim here and I don't think we do our cause much good by crowing about the perpetrator. It will all become crystal clear when he appears in court and if he goes to trial. The press will be all over it so there's no danger of a whitewash on this one.

I don't understand why this isn't bigger news - an 11 year old girl was missing for > 24 hours and a 53 year old butcher was arrested??

What am I missing? Why is this a non front page news story?

Too much negative talk and assumptions of guilt about the guy which might work in his favor on trial I would guess