Maya’s response to Radical Notion’s GC divisions

I definitely lean more towards the KJK/Helen/Mary side of the GC movement. KJK and Helen have done much more to shed sunlight on this mess than academics. And I think old men in horrible wigs and tight little dresses are hilarious and I will definitely point it out on social media.

So some people are what they say they are and some are not, and no one can really know what is going on between someone else's ears?

Yep, that's what women have been saying for some years now and being called all kinds of names for it. And this is not the first time we have seen some of the old guard, those who prefer to call themselves transsexuals despite all the abuse they get for it from the TQ+ lobby, see what it coming and try to re draw the line between themselves and other TQ people in a way that would exclude those people but still permit transsexuals access to women's single sex spaces.

Sadly that horse has not only bolted, it's died of old age. The time when that was possible is long, long gone. There is no way to separate the sincere from the insincere, and it's ridiculous to claim that anyone behaving in an inconvenient way = not sincere. Some of the absolutely sincere will also be those like Bryson and Scott. So it will have to be that everyone must be assumed to be what they say they are, if someone identifies as trans they are trans, there is no gatekeeping of this possible or logical.

and that means that there is a difference between a trans person and those of the biological sex the trans person identifies as being, and being trans cannot include access to women in single sex spaces .

End of.

So from reading that, Whittle is now proving to be another ‘they are not always trans when they say they are’ trans person?

So, socialist feminists have been the ones writing the UNWomen tweets and others saying feminists work to make the lives of all minorities better??? Not the liberal feminists?

Whittle certainly mastered mansplaining.

This is like the surrendered wives of starmer

once upon a time there was a beautiful woman. Some people with different political views were mean to her and threatened her integrity by wanting to work with her to achieve some stuff. But she held fast to her opinions and didn’t listen or ever change her mind about anything, just like a good person should. One day she was in a forest glade selflessly stuffing envelopes when a handsome leftist prince rode past on his charger and fell in love with her purity

they moved to a collective together where she became public property of all the men there and lived happily ever after

the end

If it were as acceptable for men to wear ‘women’s clothes’ as vice versa, there would be no point in the fetish.

However, I don’t know how you get from A to B. Male to female ‘cross dressing’ is so inextricably tied up with women’s place in society and concepts of submission. A woman wearing a man’s shirt is just wearing clothes.

There is an obvious difference between a man wearing a dress because he is making a fashion statement, and a man wearing a dress because he is signifying femininity. However, very, very few men do the first.

It would be a step forward to be able to acknowledge that both things exist, but are not the same.

If those screenshots are Whittle, I think even less now her now and I didn't know that was possible. Very manipulative, as others have said. The outright lie that she has ever done anything to benefit women was enough to send my blood pressure through the roof!

I suppose this is what she's been pouring in the ears of MPs for decades... I'm shocked that such nonsense seems to have been incredibly successful

This pretty much covers it for me too.

The other thing that really wound me up about that preening RN thing was focus on all the groups you have to show you care about. "Culture of caring for others"?

In particular it only mentioned one class IIRC - the working class. But women of all classes are, as journalist tweet points out, "is only as safe as her male partner allows her to be". Anyone who's ever worked in DA knows this. There are truly awful cases from all of society. The case that resulted in domestic homicide reviews was not what most would regard a working class family but middle class.

And no one in DA worth their salt would set out to expressly exclude a class of women because they perceive they're rich. Rich how? If you're being controlled, then how exactly? For good reason we have refuges and services for particular groups, yes. And we do and should support the efforts of those groups but setting out to ignore whole swathes of women got on my nerves.

The tweet I saw:

twitter.com/janemartinson/status/1623086388131385349?s=46&t=AEzVFyIPDcyTuwql4FvYZw

Another manipulative thing. She talks about how her daughter felt depressed because people found out that SW is her parent and gave her shit for it. She then starts dissing KJK - who has taken the worst kind of doxing involving her home and kids. Urgh.

God she is so manipulative. Bollocks does she have the same aims as Julie Bindel.

She says she can switch at will for crossdressers to see them in their alternative persona. She doesn’t realise that this is just not normal.

Normal people with normal minds and brains find it disconcerting if someone keeps changing costumes and ‘acting’ in character with it. It is part of a different social contract that we are truthful and authentic about who we are. We want to be able to trust people, connect with people, not be an audience to their phony performance.

Normal women are freaked out by men getting off on crossdressing. She is so oblivious she can’t see the signs. Naive dimbo. Does she not actually know men at all? It’s a bit ridiculous if this is the case, since she’s pretending to be one.

I just stumbled across Stephen Whittle’s Reddit account.

Is it her account? I didn't take her for being barely literate.

have we not spent years demonstrating that feminism has the right to be a movement only for women and women's rights?

It was revalatory to me, to realise that it was permissible to focus on women's rights without having to dance around making sure I also paid obeisance to every other marginalised group first.

I have this board to thank for that.

A golden age of gender roles? Oh, dear.

www.reddit.com/u/1955Stephen/

I just stumbled across Stephen Whittle’s
Reddit account.

Whittle has been writing what seems to be Terf themed fanfic and as it mentions some of the women mentioned on this thread I will put the screenshots here:

We're going to need a bigger bench.

I really liked this article. The academic theoretical purity spirals some feminist theorists spout have a similar impact on me that queer theory gender crap does - it's a total turn off. I'm strongly feminist but I'm also an extremely practical person who likes to solve problems - if that makes me a shire wife then so be it. Budge up on that bench.

I also agree that there are many in the trans movement who warrant mocking. Maybe that makes me a bad person, I'm no longer sure I care.

David Beckham in a sarong? Harry Styles in a ballgown and blazer? Crack on. I have zero issues with people wearing whatever makes them comfortable. But there is a hard to describe yet very perceptible line where it switches from wearing women's clothing to dressing up as a woman; where it goes from fashion choice to insulting mimicry. That same line is where it transitions from confident rule breaker to worthy of ridicule. It's also the line where it often becomes creepy.

So we should work for everyone. But not for anyone on the right. And the primary purpose of feminism is not to overturn the patriarchy, or to improve the lot of women, but to be noticed by socialists.

Eh?

What a great article.

"By contrast, what might be called “Mumsnet feminism” focuses on the messy material reality of mothers, fathers (good and bad, present and absent) and children, who need care and protection. It may be low on theory but it can see gender ideology and queer theory for what it is; an attack on the social structures that protect children (many of which are derided as part of the patriarchy by those who see the world this way)."

And as far as mocking people I don't really have an issue with it, especially after it was pink leggings penis rapist's photo that peaked all of Scotland.

I want activism that achieves change, we need a hoard of women (and men) to get change. I've very much in the Maya and Helen camp.

People's Front of Judaea vs the Judean People's Front. Life of Brian on purity spirals and infighting four decades ago

I think we should consider rebranding to The Real Shire Wives of Mumsnet - can’t cope with Farage’s name coming up this frequently!

While I've certainly critiqued Posie for her lack of understanding of US politics, and while she may have a populist following in a broad sense of the term, and I personally see that some women get a bit too defensive when it comes to 'professional feminism', in no way, in absolutely no way in hell, is she anything like Trump nor does she employ his tactics. That man is a narcissistic, long-term grifter, harasser of women, and has zero understanding or care for women's rights. FFS, Trump never lets anyone speak if he's got a stage - the opposite of "Let Women Speak!" The man picks whatever cause d'jour will get him exposure and his favorite cause is himself. I AM an American, on the left, and unfortunately for my own mental health, I'm well versed in Trump, and no. Just. no. They may both speak off the cuff, but that's the most I've got.

Also, 'USian ears' - I've never heard this used to describe my people. It's weird.

I’m assuming I’m a shire wife of Farage too (shudders). I do actually live away from academic spires in the countryside and I’m married to a man who I think is rather nice as is my DS. Can’t stand Farage though.

I haven’t got the brain power left at the end of the day or end of the week to wade through pages of academic navel gazing and I left the school girl who’s in who’s out club behind in the playground. I don’t have to agree with anything KJK, Maya or anybody else thinks on other issues (except JKR because, well, JKR) for me to agree with them in this and as a pragmatist (I’m a medic and we tend to be) I don’t see the need for everyone to agree to be allowed in the club.

Tribalism is the death of any movement because no one is ever 100% ideologically pure and as others said I think it’s the height of privilege to have academic discussions about who counts as good enough to be the right kind of feminist when there’s males in women’s safe spaces as we speak. Imprisoned women can’t theorise their way out of sexual violence.