What's the problem with FiLiA?

Not all lesbian couples want to co parent with a man.

This is what is so downright entitled.

@EndlessTea You obviously know nothing about the subject. It has already been explained to you that only a man who wanted to co parent would donate because he would have to pay maintenance.
Not all lesbian couples want to co parent with a man.
Just as not all straight couples who have a sperm donor want to co parent with another man.

I’m glad about that. It didn’t used to be the case. The argument was that no one would donate if they could be traced.

I don’t think lesbians should use any random man. I think they should get to know the bloke. It’s a serious matter, creating a child.

The sperm donor if through a clinic is known and children when grown up have a legal right to know who they are.

@EndlessTea Yes because you said lesbians should just ask any random man for sperm and refused to understand the legal and medical issues that mean most lesbians use clinics.

Claire Heuchan and Joanne Harris have a lot in common I think. Both very concerned with how they come across in terms of status, both willing to silence dissenting voices, both happy to use their identity to claim power over others, both ready to make abusive and cruel statements about their enemies.

I know the thread has moved on but apparently only onto Sapphos repeating the same claims we've heard from her several times. So I thought I'd just mention that.

The syringe thing came up in a different thread, where the argument was that it was really expensive for lesbians to get pregnant. And my argument was, no it isn’t, not if you use a syringe. My apologies for not seeing.

There was an AMA thread I stayed off recently where the OP had donated her eggs and I needed to stay away from that.

Yes, I suppose the method isn’t the issue, it is the anonymity that bothers me.

I believe the parents of a child should be known and I know this won’t just offend lesbians, but anyone who has used anyone anonymous to father the child or biological egg donations.

There are plenty of situations where IVF or ICSI is recommended over IUI as the success rates are different. I don't really see that "just use a syringe" is a solution?

Put me down as another one who has noticed a creeping anti-lesbian sentiment on this board, I understand what a PP is saying now that we've served our purpose the masks are slowly slipping off.

Have you never heard of that Sappho? Did you think lesbians never had babies before the invention of IVF?

I think I pointed out, that the syringe, has long been used.

There are other arrangements lesbians and gay men can make without involving the State and where the child is able to have a relationship with both biological parents.

Wasn't this 'lie back, think of England and do things the normal way'?

And I pointed out to you how offensive that is.

I’m not religious.

I believe, correctly, that sexual reproduction occurs between two opposite sexed individuals

i believe a child has the right to have a relationship with both biological parents (if the mother was raped I think her right to have no relationship with her rapist trumps this right though).

I know these principles make ethical sexual reproduction for same-sex attracted people complicated.

I don’t believe this is a problem for the State to solve.

There are other arrangements lesbians and gay men can make without involving the State and where the child is able to have a relationship with both biological parents.

@EndlessTea
so precisely those are your religious beliefs that a child needs an opposite sex couple as parents .
It has nothing to do with the NHS

That’s not what I am arguing for.

I disagree with anonymous parenting. I don’t believe it’s in the child’s best interest. The sexual orientation is irrelevant. I believe a child has the right to have a relationship with both biological parents.

I hear you when you say this “it makes me twitchy when I read or meet straight women who are unusually exercised over the cotton ceiling and whether or not Stonewall has 'erased' same-sex attraction as I can't be sure if they're using us as some kind of pawn.”

But I think most people get an absolutely visceral reaction to the cotton ceiling. Everyone knows about blokes wanting to get their dicks about where they aren’t wanted and feels a sense of outrage about it. And even more outraged that men specifically target women who are lesbians. The injustice of it.

I personally get uncomfortable when I think lesbians talk the feminist talk, but then they seem to be siding with gay men over things like public expression of kink or surrogacy.

I suppose our interests aren’t all the same.

Then you and your friend must start a campaign to persuade the NHS that straight single women need to have access to donor insemination services. I'm sure you'd find a lot of lesbians to support your cause. The situation is unfair.

But blaming lesbians for a decision made by the NHS and politicians is ridiculous and HOMOPHOBIC.

@notsurewherenotsurewhy I am starting to get twitchy myself, realising that anyone who isn’t supportive of ignoring the ethical minefield of anonymous parenthood or the devaluing of biological relationships, is deemed ‘homophobic’. I wonder how many people realise that these enhanced entitlement are what are meant by ‘equal fertility rights’. Nobody told me - it took Sappho - a supposedly reformed TRA to say it out loud.

Indeed. There are some people that are simply transphobic and homophobic and these people are not our allies, even though they oppose gender ideology.

There is a wider point for me in that straight women - including feminists - have often been unreliable allies to lesbians (you can make the same observation of gay men, too). I am a GC lesbian and have lost TRA lesbian friends over my politics, but nonetheless it makes me twitchy when I read or meet straight women who are unusually exercised over the cotton ceiling and whether or not Stonewall has 'erased' same-sex attraction as I can't be sure if they're using us as some kind of pawn.

NASWALT, obviously. But enough are.

*homophobic

It isn’t Homophile to question and criticise staggering entitlement, just because the people acting entitled are lesbian or gay.