What's the problem with FiLiA?

It has been the case for about fifteen years, so it's interesting you have such strong views on something where you also have so little basic knowledge.

Yes, but that's really the issue isn't it?

There are lots of people who think that people should not deliberatly have a child if both of the biological parents won't be in the child's life. Not a name on a paper when the child is 18, but actually a real relationship with the person who they are irreparably connected to by flesh and blood.

It's basically a child-centered view that comes out of children's rights thinking that says that children should not be given away.

That viewpoint is going to apply to anyone who uses donor gametes in the usual scenarios where there is no relationship.

The fact that someone who wants to have a child might just prefer to cut out one or both of the biological parents so as to not need to navigate that relationship themselves is not going to be a very convincing argument to someone who sees that material reality of biological connection as really important, and why would it be? Any more than what people prefer would be convincing with any other case where there is a question of a clash of rights.

It's not an argument that really refers to sexuality at all, and most people who use donor gametes are heterosexual.

Hi, EndlessTea so we did. I am well thanks and hope the same to you.

I was heartened to hear Helen Joyce say how grateful she, and many public feminists, are to WPUK at the UCL conference for providing platforms and amplifying their voices btw.

Endlesstea

This is what you said: Btw. I am opposed to anonymous fathers/genetic mothers, but there is a difference between a couple resorting to (and the State providing) this because either one is infertile, and a couple choosing (and the State providing) this as a first resort because they want the biological parent out of the way because they can’t be arsed with finding a suitable person, or dealing with a co-parenting situation.

You saying this led to my response.

Thanks for the link. How beautifully sane it all seems.

rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/lesbian-parenting-and-the-law/

"If you are married or are in a civil partnership and you or your partner/wife conceive a child outside of a licensed fertility clinic using a known donor, the donor will not have any legal rights to the child and both you and your civil partner/wife will have PR."

I have never doubted this.

"Child Maintenance
Child maintenance remains payable whether or not your ex is living with a new partner.
The obligation to pay child maintenance continues regardless of your ex’s circumstances.
If, however, your circumstances change e.g. you lose your job or you have another child, then it may be possible for the level of child maintenance to be re-assessed by the Child Maintenance Service."

www.familylawpartners.co.uk/blog/can-i-stop-paying-maintenance-if-my-ex-is-living-with-their-new-partner

There was a research project in the UK some years ago that indicated that the children of lesbian relationships did better in terms of educational attainment and psychological health. Can't find it now but I know it was included in a lesbian magazine I used to subscribe to.

Here's an article from the Los Angeles Times about a longitudinal study that also concludes that children of same-sex couples are at no disadvantage when compared to children from straight families.
www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-lesbian-couples-children-20180718-story.html

I'm wondering whether Endless Tea is Ann Widdecombe.

That is not true. You do not get out of maintenance just because your ex partner had remarried. That only applies to spousal maintenance which is very rare, not child maintenance.

And when she shacks up with someone else, he doesn’t need to pay any more.

In a married straight couple the husband is assumed to be the father of any child unless a DNA test proves otherwise. If it proves otherwise of course the mother can seek maintenance from the father.

Btw hi @Shinyredbicycle - we had quite the ding-dong before on the Joyce/Bindel thread I recall. Hope you are well.

Pleas show your reasoning. How did what I say lead to your response there?

I don’t think someone in a married couple can pursue someone for maintenance payments. I know of a situation where a woman isn’t allowed for her boyfriend to move in or stay over too often or her ex will be entitled to stop paying.

You are right if he is an official sperm donor. Not though if a lesbian gets pregnant with a man she happens to know which endlesstea is suggesting.

@EndlessTea carry on spewing your homophobia all over mumsnet.

I think there's more to same sex parenting, or single parenting, than 'not being arsed with finding a suitable person' tbh.

I know it pisses you off PattiHews and Sappho that I don’t believe “I want” should always “get”. Even if it is super-special people like you two.

As to those who say “the mask is slipping” or who suggest what I say reflects on what anyone else thinks or is showing some sort of secret gender critical agenda hitherto unspoken, I can assure you that am disagreeable, far more than the average person. I’m not about to change any time soon.

Btw. I am opposed to anonymous fathers/genetic mothers, but there is a difference between a couple resorting to (and the State providing) this because either one is infertile, and a couple choosing (and the State providing) this as a first resort because they want the biological parent out of the way because they can’t be arsed with finding a suitable person, or dealing with a co-parenting situation.

This is simply untrue; if a married lesbian couple have a baby with a known donor, he has no parental rights and cannot be pursued for maintenance.

EndlessTea has got to be trolling us 😂

So fucking entitled these lesbians, wanting to raise children as a lesbian couple.

Are you a man, Endless Tea?

Yikes, Endless Tea, I mistook you for a reasonable person for a while back there. Whew. So you're staggered not that the NHS will in some cases offer donor insemination to lesbians, you're furious with lesbians for not necessarily wanting the child's father in its life.

Gah, these hideously entitled lesbians, eh, to want to take their lives and their decisions in their own hands.

And what level of entitlement does a straight woman achieve who has sex with two or three men over the course of a month and then finds that she's pregnant and she has no idea who any of those men were. Is she staggeringly entitled too if she maintains the pregnancy and has the child on her own and no name under the Father heading on the birth certificate?

I know. You think lesbians have no right to have a child. Only married couples.