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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What's the problem with FiLiA?

289 replies

RhymesWithOrange · 06/02/2023 06:26

On another thread a few posters referred to "the FiLiA debacle". Without wanting to poke at the wounds in the current feminist movement, can someone tell me what's gone on?

OP posts:
Ramblingnamechanger · 06/02/2023 17:33

Interesting to see the Birmingham conference mentioned here. As I remember it was similar issues which caused the disruption …with broadly soc fems disagreeing with Rad fems about men. It was strange to have so many speakers at Filia but I appreciated hearing most of them. I would say there is room for that while also appreciating KJKs approach of letting women speak on the topic of the moment.

EndlessTea · 06/02/2023 17:31

I remember when I first saw articles and posts by Sister Outrider, there was a lot of supportive cooing from my fellow feminist friends and and I thought Hmm A bit Emperor’s New Clothes imo. Nothing insightful added. To be honest, she wouldn’t be the only one I’ve thought the same about, but I keep shtum because you want to give someone time to find their feet/voice as a writer.

I hadn’t realised she said all those nasty things about KJK though.

As for the ‘EDI vampire’. What a brilliant description.

So many orgs are vampirised - look at Stonewall’s inclusion scheme.

EndlessTea · 06/02/2023 17:17

AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 13:11

I think what people are unhappy about was that one workshop took place at the last conference. All because some people disagree with the speakers on the panel. And the appointment of Claire because she speaks out about racism including the racism of popular women in feminism.
There are some women that are seen as forbidden to criticise. So the fact Claire criticises their racism makes her a target.
I also can't believe some women arguing against inclusivity. Which women do you think should not be included at FILIA conferences?

I also can't believe some women arguing against inclusivity. Which women do you think should not be included at FILIA conferences?

The ones with a cock

RhymesWithOrange · 06/02/2023 17:14

So you're condemning me for assumed wrongthink. I see. That tells me all I need to know about you!

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AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 17:10

RhymesWithOrange · 06/02/2023 17:06

I'm not answerable to you @AllOutofEverything.

No you are not. But if you will not explain why your objections to critical race theory are not racist then I am left with one conclusion.

RhymesWithOrange · 06/02/2023 17:08

Thank you @IwantToRetire that's helpful.

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RhymesWithOrange · 06/02/2023 17:06

I'm not answerable to you @AllOutofEverything.

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AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 17:01

RhymesWithOrange · 06/02/2023 16:39

I think some of the responses illustrate the problem that FiLiA is facing.

I can't say "I disagree with the application of CRT to the conditions and nature of racism in the UK" without being told I'm denying racism exists.

Perhaps you can explain what exactly you disagree with then?

IwantToRetire · 06/02/2023 16:55

I am hestitantly outing myself as the one who talked about debacle, but cant really say where it was I said it.

But was within the context of the WPUK workshop at FiLia.

The problem with FiLia is that it has about as much to do with women's liberation as going on a package tour and then thinking you know about the country you were escorted through.

But if you want your feminism curated for you, and accept that someone else (who may have personal rather than political reasons) chooses who has a platform and who doesn't they you pays your money and accepts what you get.

And on one level that doesn't matter, but it does when it turns out it is the same small friendship group that is basically promoting their friends and there brand of feminism.

The Elephant thread allowed women to explore this ongoing deceit as something they hadn't realised was happening. And thanks to one poster whose name I have forgotten found out that WPUK directors now has members of a group called Actual Gender Critical Left who are the chief maligners of KJK and Kara Danski (is that her name) and quite honestly it seems very personal rather than political.

Added to this dinner party feminism, is the fact, also discussed on FWR that it appeared that the trustees of FiLia are using money dontated or granted to them to run the conferenct to sue a woman who asked for an apology for being thrown out (violently by men) from the social she had a ticket for 2 years ago, and a similar though less violent one this year.

The problem is FiLia is really feminist entertainment inc. with about as much political intergrity as any corporate brand. Or at best fanzine feminism. But they are thrilled to be able to tag themselves onto big names and get spoken about as though they were actual political activists. So whilst the jousting for top billing is going on between the organisers and the names, actual feminism, which is what women are doing at the grass roots is just trampled over or ignored.

Not forgetting that the cost in terms of time and money is beyond most women.

And no it had nothing to do with why women's liberation fell apart after the Birmingham WLM conference in 1978. Partly because no actual woman who was part of WLM would have attended a conference where they sat dutifully in rows whilst their superiors talked down to them from a platform.

The only similarity is in fact the endless attempt by some socialist feminists to be in charge of the agenda. The Birmingham Conference fell apart because some socialists feminsts felt a vote on women being safe from male violence wasn't a priority. This ended up with microphones being snatched and / or turned off. Which could have been funny but had a huge impact on those attending was within minutes what seemed like a very large group of women bumping along in what seemed like a shared direction turned out not to be true. Or maybe that a few women were able to disrupt it enough and no one had ever had to deal with a situation like that. And it broke trust. So no one tried to do it again.

So what is going on at FiLia is also about how, through the back door rather than an outright stand off over a mike, some socialist feminists are setting the agenda.

As the so called Women's Liberation Conference organised by WPUK.

Its funny how all these groups who actually despise who the WLM worked and it fundamental principals are quite happy to use its same to give what they are doing validity.

RhymesWithOrange · 06/02/2023 16:39

I think some of the responses illustrate the problem that FiLiA is facing.

I can't say "I disagree with the application of CRT to the conditions and nature of racism in the UK" without being told I'm denying racism exists.

OP posts:
DerekFaker · 06/02/2023 14:40

And the appointment of Claire because she speaks out about racism including the racism of popular women in feminism.
There are some women that are seen as forbidden to criticise. So the fact Claire criticises their racism makes her a target.

Is that you Claire?

We've already told you why: it's because she's extremely unpleasant. The replies to Filia make that clear.

And no, it isn't about one woman (we know you mean Posie,and I hardly think comparing someone to dog shit is 'criticism'), she's done this to quite a lot of women. Couple of examples for ya.

What's the problem with FiLiA?
What's the problem with FiLiA?
notsurewherenotsurewhy · 06/02/2023 14:39

AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 13:11

I think what people are unhappy about was that one workshop took place at the last conference. All because some people disagree with the speakers on the panel. And the appointment of Claire because she speaks out about racism including the racism of popular women in feminism.
There are some women that are seen as forbidden to criticise. So the fact Claire criticises their racism makes her a target.
I also can't believe some women arguing against inclusivity. Which women do you think should not be included at FILIA conferences?

I agree with this. I think it's interesting (and depressing) that Claire Heuchan is the one being cast as 'divisive' here.

DerekFaker · 06/02/2023 14:33

AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 13:02

Honestly this is meaningless. Where they blocked for being abusive or rude to FILIA? That is the usual reason to block.

No, lots have been blocked simply for disagreeing.

pattihews · 06/02/2023 14:27

I'm so pissed off by all this. I really enjoyed Filia and posted on here recommending it to any woman.

pattihews · 06/02/2023 14:24

No, she said it last October, long before Maya had to raise money.

Themone · 06/02/2023 14:23

She said she struggles to raise money for her left wing feminist activism and events, but whenever middle class gender critical women do activism they have no problem raising lots of money

Was that intended as a dig at Maya's latest round of fundraising?

pattihews · 06/02/2023 14:16

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 12:41

😔 between this and the Radical Notion's ticking off of those Doing Feminism Wrong, this state of affairs is disheartening.

I think I'll just remember the good times, and carry on writing to my MP, and donating to crowdfunders and other organisations like KPSS and Sex Matters.

I think this is the best policy. Lone wolves, unaffiliated. No groups. I met Claire Heuchan at an event at Filia and she was very pleasant. Then someone suggested I take a look at her Twitter account(s)...

BadSkiingMum · 06/02/2023 13:53

Yeah, if you didn’t hate them you would have a bigger and more powerful group.

BadSkiingMum · 06/02/2023 13:52

I believe that all organisations should actively work to combat racism and combat other forms of disadvantage, including the disadvantages experienced by women as a sex-based group.

But I know that people come from all kinds of perspectives and it is often hugely counterproductive to shame people who may be supportive of a particular goal and broadly on the same page but aren’t quite expressing it in the ‘right’ way. Or their own ‘lived’ experiences are leading them to express slightly differing views.

Once again, the Monty Python lot say it rather well:

‘The only people I hate more than the Romans are the [inset name of disfavoured internal group]’

Mollyollydolly · 06/02/2023 13:27

I was very surprised by the appointment of Claire as a trustee.
I blocked her on twitter years ago because I found her extremely toxic, rude and dismissive of many women I admire. I've been to their conference and enjoyed it but was taken aback by this appt. Claire famously said she'd rather stand by a steaming pile of dog shit than Posie Parker.
The twitter thread is worth looking at including the hidden replies. It's certainly a very controversial appt for me, she might do great work in real life, but her twitter feed was toxic.
It's made me suspicious of Filia.

twitter.com/FiLiA_charity/status/1619002802260385793

AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 13:25

But your paraphrasing was totally wrong. You gave a totally inaccurate account of what the woman attending the workshop said.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 13:22

AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 13:18

@NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom I do not care. What was said is not true.

I made it clear I was paraphrasing and directed readers towards the discussion that took place directly after the event.

AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 13:18

@NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom I do not care. What was said is not true.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 13:16

AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 13:15

"The WPUK session also gave us gems such as (paraphrasing!) ‘Only right wing women have the money to support crowdfunders’."

Except that is not what was said. That was a woman from the floor who works in a low paid job and is a feminist activist. She said she struggles to raise money for her left wing feminist activism and events, but whenever middle class gender critical women do activism they have no problem raising lots of money. She was talking about her own experience and was someone attending, not a speaker on the panel.

It’s all on the other thread.

AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 13:15

"The WPUK session also gave us gems such as (paraphrasing!) ‘Only right wing women have the money to support crowdfunders’."

Except that is not what was said. That was a woman from the floor who works in a low paid job and is a feminist activist. She said she struggles to raise money for her left wing feminist activism and events, but whenever middle class gender critical women do activism they have no problem raising lots of money. She was talking about her own experience and was someone attending, not a speaker on the panel.

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