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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times: “Isla Bryson is Sturgeon’s Poll Tax moment”

110 replies

SidewaysOtter · 04/02/2023 18:55

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8cc04a2-a4a5-11ed-9d5c-69bd3c5b98b3?shareToken=0d217dc3eb76e6c335f8de48824ac0ef

Interesting that it would seem the SNP are realising that this is immensely unpopular amongst its voters and the general populace.

And it shines yet more light on Sturgeon’s ridiculous “Trans women are women except when it doesn’t suit my political ambitions they’re not” standpoint, as well as how women’s fears were dismissed only to be found entirely valid.

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potniatheron · 06/02/2023 14:34

ResisterRex · 04/02/2023 20:04

This is a bad day out for Sturgeon and co:

SNP insiders are painfully aware of the damage

“Gender recognition...could lose us popular Scotland too.”

Referring to the first minister’s “meltdown”, another sympathetic SNP source noted that Sturgeon is “obviously worried and anxious. Voters can’t understand why we are so wedded to this.”

Sturgeon’s approval rating has slipped into negative territory, from +7 to -4 since October.

A reversal on the independence question seems to have happened over past month, with support for secession down from 53 per cent to 47 per cent

Curtice said: “...it looks as though the battering the Scottish government has suffered in recent weeks, and especially on the issue of transgender prisoners, may also have taken its toll on SNP support.”

According to Alex Bell, a former senior policy adviser to Alex Salmond, a “constitutional crisis” has in a week become “a policy disaster”.

Referring to the first minister’s “meltdown”, another sympathetic SNP source noted that Sturgeon is “obviously worried and anxious. Voters can’t understand why we are so wedded to this.”

That's what I don't understand either. Why ARE they so wedded to this?

nilsmousehammer · 06/02/2023 14:02

'Other countries do it with problems that only affect women which we hide, and it's not like it bothers men or politicians so what the fuck eh? no problems'.

BATSHIT.

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 13:56

And a really good thread on it here

twitter.com/jebadoo2/status/1622579115596607489?s=46&t=KXw1jod35_jmldDoObsZRA

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 13:50

Some of it is here but there are various clips on Twitter

twitter.com/markthehibby/status/1622572048659673088?s=46&t=KXw1jod35_jmldDoObsZRA

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 13:49

Myotherpetisamouse · 06/02/2023 13:45

Part of the SNP constitution is that members are forbidden to question the leadership- so they’re a bit stuck with her.
Ultimately that will have to change. It’s more like to constitution of a dictatorship currently.

Wow really?! That's nuts!

Myotherpetisamouse · 06/02/2023 13:45

Part of the SNP constitution is that members are forbidden to question the leadership- so they’re a bit stuck with her.
Ultimately that will have to change. It’s more like to constitution of a dictatorship currently.

Boiledbeetle · 06/02/2023 13:41

@nilsmousehammer yeah that's about it. I couldn't be arsed to read all her waffle again to type

So disingenuous

nilsmousehammer · 06/02/2023 13:41

And yet more there are three sexes: men, women and rapists.

nilsmousehammer · 06/02/2023 13:40

Much incoherent bollocks

"We've been doing this for years (and were popping Bryson and Scott in to add to the steady wreckage of women being reported by the victims and women's staff) and we were just harming women and pandering to men quite happily until everyone noticed and said wtf do you think you're doing. Meanies. Shut up and let women be abused and stop fussing about it."

More incoherent bollocks.

Men are women. Except when they're not.

Boiledbeetle · 06/02/2023 13:38

5 that's it

Times: “Isla Bryson is Sturgeon’s Poll Tax moment”
Boiledbeetle · 06/02/2023 13:37

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Times: “Isla Bryson is Sturgeon’s Poll Tax moment”
Boiledbeetle · 06/02/2023 13:37

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Times: “Isla Bryson is Sturgeon’s Poll Tax moment”
Boiledbeetle · 06/02/2023 13:36

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Times: “Isla Bryson is Sturgeon’s Poll Tax moment”
Boiledbeetle · 06/02/2023 13:36

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 10:14

Press conference details

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/nicola-sturgeon-press-conference-how-to-watch-nicola-sturgeon-briefing-today/ar-AA167D6p

"Nicola Sturgeon speech: What time is Nicola Sturgeon press conference?
Nicola Sturgeon will address the media around 11:30 this morning.

How to watch Nicola Sturgeon media briefing live stream?
Nicola Sturgeon will hold the press conference at 11:30 – which will be available to watch on the Scottish Government live stream via the @ScotGov Twitter feed"

Handwritten note s

Times: “Isla Bryson is Sturgeon’s Poll Tax moment”
ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 10:14

Press conference details

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/nicola-sturgeon-press-conference-how-to-watch-nicola-sturgeon-briefing-today/ar-AA167D6p

"Nicola Sturgeon speech: What time is Nicola Sturgeon press conference?
Nicola Sturgeon will address the media around 11:30 this morning.

How to watch Nicola Sturgeon media briefing live stream?
Nicola Sturgeon will hold the press conference at 11:30 – which will be available to watch on the Scottish Government live stream via the @ScotGov Twitter feed"

ditalini · 06/02/2023 09:48

MajorCarolDanvers · 06/02/2023 09:33

Unfortunately though 45% will still vote for them and the Greens combined so
nothing will change.

The constitution is still the main driver for most voters.

That's largely true, but I'm a pretty bog standard person. Generally finding myself in a fairly central position on most issues.

On the issue of Independence, it made sense to me, especially as things got more right wing and neoliberal in the rest of the UK and I welcomed the idea of an independent Scotland with a plurality of voices that reflected out voting demographic. I held my nose to some extent on the basis that once Independence was achieved I would likely revert to Labour (or the equivalent).

Anyway, turns out I care more for women's rights than I do for independence and the ballot box is still private so I can't be bullied and shouted at that I'm on the "wrong side of history" there.

I think the Greens may particularly suffer tbh. A lot of people cast their list vote for them because independence+ environmental issues. Maybe that's why they're staying so quiet now, or maybe Sturgeon's told them to shut up and try not to make it worse.

That 45% are certainly not independence at any cost - the thing that might keep them propped up though is Scottish Labour being just as bad on this issue. It's a very big leap for some of us to vote Tory but I might find myself holding my nose again.

MajorCarolDanvers · 06/02/2023 09:33

Unfortunately though 45% will still vote for them and the Greens combined so
nothing will change.

The constitution is still the main driver for most voters.

Abhannmor · 06/02/2023 09:28

@Needmoresleep nails it. Sex is Fundamental and everyone just knows it. It's like denying gravity.

An Antigravity Party would be great fun actually. But they won't win elections.

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 09:20

I missed those, thanks @Igneococcus

Also of interest here:

twitter.com/oceanbreathcafe/status/1622523304836837376?s=46&t=wg5qFCvAyMg2kSB2pgwlTg

"Is this the end? 🤞🏼

Nicola Sturgeon set to host another press conference"

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-set-host-press-29126168

"
Nicola Sturgeonn_ will be taking to the stage once again today, allowing the press to put questions directly to her in a break from normal practice.
...

Ms Sturgeon has so far used the platform to directly criticise the UK Govts opposition to her Gender Recognition Bill without the style of rebuttal normally reserved for Holyrood debates.
Not even members of the press are allowed to request follow-up questions while the live stream is fed to Scots through the Scottish Goverment Twitter feed.

With her party's stance on gender on even shakier ground than it was at the last February 23 briefing, there is little doubt that it once again dominates questions, along with ongoing speculation that she is crumbling under the pressure of her unpopular policy."

Rainbowshit · 06/02/2023 09:17

I find this article by The National extremely interesting. It looks pretty fairly balanced. Not something we see very often from The National. 🤔

www.thenational.scot/news/23300695.glasgow-gender-critical-rally-met-trans-activist-counter-protest/

Igneococcus · 06/02/2023 08:23

I don't know if this comment by Alex Bell from yesterday's Sunday Times has been shared yet. He is coming at it from the perspective of an independence supporter:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/54ab28e0-a4b3-11ed-ab5a-a67b5932bebd?shareToken=77426cffe1aad3b9f7f200976cd8a67a

Also Jim Sillars' comment:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/584e6032-a4a1-11ed-ab5a-a67b5932bebd?shareToken=ecc065b77a8f8f3fb8383d6c503bda1d

MalagaNights · 05/02/2023 20:38

Posie thanking Nicola Sturgeon is the second biggest story on the Daily Mail home page:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11715379/Womens-rights-campaigner-Kellie-Jay-Keen-thanks-Nicola-Sturgeon-waking-Scotland-Glasgow.html

ResisterRex · 05/02/2023 20:33

The coverage continues:

Trans rapist row hammers support for Scottish independence as Nicola Sturgeon feels the force of voters' anger at row over whether criminals who carried out sex attacks as men should be allowed in women's prisons
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11715153/Trans-rapist-row-blow-support-Scottish-independence-Nicola-Sturgeon-feels-voters-anger.html

Eat humble pie over trans law, SNP critic tells Sturgeon

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/688eec4e-a575-11ed-9311-522a2d54b6fd?shareToken=dbd6036129c477404123c21ec9c21aeb

Nicola Sturgeon’s approval rating plunges in wake of trans row

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/05/nicola-sturgeons-approval-rating-plunges-wake-trans-row/

EngTech · 05/02/2023 18:24

Come the local / GE, people will vote accordingly 👍

nilsmousehammer · 05/02/2023 18:11

Its the cake and eat it too problem.

Either trans is entirely a person's choice and feeling irrespective of who they are, what they do, what they've done, which makes the group as a whole inevitably containing of those flat out dangerous to women and unable to use women's spaces

or

trans is something strictly gatekept, in the expectation of those males using women's spaces not actually being a direct threat to those women's life and limb.

It can't be both.

This totally ignores that the bar for women's rights is set so low that it's even being quibbled about as whether not actually being raped or beaten up or killed is a sufficient reason to say no to men. Or that women are excluded even by fully transitioned, delightful and entirely safe males in their spaces. But it shows the utter unreasonability of the TQ+ political position.

And why women are now so totally fed up that they're fairly clear about no, no males, at all, ever, find other solutions, and repeal the GRA.

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