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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times: “Isla Bryson is Sturgeon’s Poll Tax moment”

110 replies

SidewaysOtter · 04/02/2023 18:55

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a8cc04a2-a4a5-11ed-9d5c-69bd3c5b98b3?shareToken=0d217dc3eb76e6c335f8de48824ac0ef

Interesting that it would seem the SNP are realising that this is immensely unpopular amongst its voters and the general populace.

And it shines yet more light on Sturgeon’s ridiculous “Trans women are women except when it doesn’t suit my political ambitions they’re not” standpoint, as well as how women’s fears were dismissed only to be found entirely valid.

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ResisterRex · 07/02/2023 05:58

Telegraph front page, lead story:

"Nicola Sturgeon’s gender ‘nonsense’ has set Scottish independence back years, says Alex Salmond"

twitter.com/tmorrowspapers/status/1622727601562259457?s=46&t=mojHfuzmkJW4SuDDsEkGJQ

thedaywecaughtthetrain · 07/02/2023 01:38

It is late and my mind may just be muddled ramblings but I need to get this out to see if it makes any sense to others...

So first of all I will say I am not a fan of Nicola Sturgeon.

Having watched her avoidance of being in Parliament last Wednesday I think and then her performance at first ministers questions on Thursday and then the comment that she had made it clear earlier her stance on the situation and todays (well yesterdays now) ask me anything news conference...

She does believe she is answering clearly by stating 'rapist'.

Not a new gender, but in fact clarifying male due to legal fact that only biological males, men, can commit rape.

If Nicola Sturgeon were to clarify if she believes they are Male or Female, a man or a woman she would be caught up in her tangled web but insisting on referring to the 'rapist' is clever word play so she can justify to herself and others at a later date that she made it clear. He is male as only Men can legally commit rape.

Nicola Sturgeon can change her words up by stating "she (Isla/Adam) identifies as a woman" while not giving their solicitor the ammunition to quash the conviction as is the law in any way sees them as legally female/woman the conviction of rape couldn't stand?

Perhaps damage control it is better for Nicola Sturgeon to play word games and look silly never seeming to answer the question but this is better all round than a two time rapist being released due to a conviction being quashed if a woman cannot commit rape?

Other people's thoughts?

Apologies, I will maybe make more sense in the morning, I just needed this out my head to get to sleep. Honestly the constant gaslighting and questioning my own reality and sanity is getting to me. Anyone else?

Just in addition - the cost it is going to take to take contest the section 35 in court is it worth it? Could the money not be better spend giving the much needed pay rises to nurses and teachers, train workers etc

smileladiesplease · 06/02/2023 23:53

Oh I do hope so

Rainbowshit · 06/02/2023 23:38

Alex Salmond must be really enjoying this. Wonder if he fancies himself at having another shot at the helm of the SNP?

Still absolutely agog at how quickly this has turned sour for our dear leader. 🤭 oh dear what a shame. 🤭

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2023 21:53

Alex Salmond has weighed in and it's not flattering.

twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1622669910756270100

I am agog, tbh. I cannot see either Sturgeon or the SNP weathering this storm successfully, yet we have no replacement/alternative that's credible.

What next?

JanesLittleGirl · 06/02/2023 21:03

Workerbeep · 06/02/2023 20:32

What another terrible performance from Nicola Sturgeon!

So according to Nicola sturgeons line of reasoning rapist is a new gender?

I thought chosen pronouns were so very important and to use the wrong pronouns was almost like a hate crime.

shes got form for referring to people as ‘that’ hasn’t she remember ‘that woman from the UN’

I assume that the correct pronouns for the gender of "rapist" are bastard/bastard/bastard.

Workerbeep · 06/02/2023 20:40

Taking the odious Alyn Smith’s comments seriously, I would have respect for SNP politicians if they did stand as independents.

Who on Earth would they select in their place? They struggle to get decent and respectable candidates to stand in local authority elections let alone parliament elections.

Workerbeep · 06/02/2023 20:32

What another terrible performance from Nicola Sturgeon!

So according to Nicola sturgeons line of reasoning rapist is a new gender?

I thought chosen pronouns were so very important and to use the wrong pronouns was almost like a hate crime.

shes got form for referring to people as ‘that’ hasn’t she remember ‘that woman from the UN’

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2023 19:18

'The arid and parched nature of Scottish politics over such a long period begins to erode the framework of our civic institutions and stakeholder organisations. This encompasses the Third Sector, all of our quangos and any other organisation that relies on the Scottish Government for public funding.

When all power is collected in one ruling couple, surrounded by a hand-picked coterie of acolytes and with no discernible opposition for the foreseeable future you simply fall in line and adopt every ukase and every personal whim without protest or hesitation if you know what’s good for you.

Organisations delivering art and culture, education, health, policing, housing and employability must adopt the path of least resistance if they want to remain in favour or secure patronage. It’s how medieval courts worked'

from November 2022.

www.celticway.co.uk/news/23105013.westminster-politics-isnt-broken-scottish-politics/

Abhannmor · 06/02/2023 19:18

Myotherpetisamouse · 06/02/2023 18:55

The Green Party in Scotland full of really strange people once you start having a look.

In fairness, the Conservative and Unionist Party is full of very strange people too.

Igneococcus · 06/02/2023 19:16

Thanks @SidewaysOtter

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Igneococcus · 06/02/2023 18:59

Good comment by Alex Massie:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sturgeon-is-being-damaged-by-her-stand-on-the-isla-bryson-row-mfvrtlcdp

I can't do sharetokens on this laptop but I'm sure someone will be able to.

Myotherpetisamouse · 06/02/2023 18:55

The Green Party in Scotland full of really strange people once you start having a look.

SidewaysOtter · 06/02/2023 18:36

And this is the Green Party’s policies on the matter: lgbtiqa.greenparty.org.uk/resources/the-truth-about-the-gra/

Interesting that a fair number of those “myths” are nothing of the sort.

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ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 18:36

The Telegraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/06/watch-mask-slips-nicola-sturgeon-calls-isla-bryson/

"Watch: ‘Mask slips’ as Nicola Sturgeon calls trans rapist ‘her’

First Minister trips up over description of Isla Bryson, but insists: ‘She regards herself as a woman, I regard the individual as a rapist’"

Linked in the article:

https://twitter.com/dsanderson85/status/1622595089238310912?s=46&t==UAQkTHLaK7BDNDjjYixw

"Nicola Sturgeon accused of "Freudian slip" by referring to transgender double rapist Isla Bryson, previously known as Adam Graham, as "her".

The FM had earlier used female pronouns for Bryson before correcting herself to say "the person"."

SidewaysOtter · 06/02/2023 18:34

That's what I don't understand either. Why ARE they so wedded to this?

I’m not in Scotland so Scottish politics aren’t something I pretend to know a lot about but I’m given to understand that the SNP need the support of the Green Party in order to have a big enough share of combined votes to govern. TQ+ policies are supported by the Greens who in turn require the SNP to support them too. No support = no power.

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ArabellaScott · 06/02/2023 17:35

Found it at last!

From Robin McAlpine:

sourcenews.scot/robin-mcalpine-the-foundations-of-scotlands-democracy-have-crumbled-and-you-should-worry/

This is actually about the structure of Scotland's government. I could have a dig about and try and find the stuff about judiciary - there were major concerns with a couple of court cases in the past few years that brought the independence of courts into question, to whit:

Craig Murray, journalist, jailed under what seemed to be a confected case.
Alex Salmond, again, appeared to be a politically motivated case.

Rainbowshit · 06/02/2023 17:22

JustWaking · 06/02/2023 14:53

So Scotland has no second chamber, and the MSPs aren't allowed to disagree with the party line?!?

So basically, whilst the SNP are in the majority Scotland is a dictatorship??

Yep. They've filled all the committees that are supposed to scrutinise with SNP yes men.

It's a disaster for Scotland.

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2023 17:04

That's not the whole picture, JustWaking. There is also a disturbing connect between the judiciary and the Govt. I'll see if I can find the article ...

JustWaking · 06/02/2023 14:53

So Scotland has no second chamber, and the MSPs aren't allowed to disagree with the party line?!?

So basically, whilst the SNP are in the majority Scotland is a dictatorship??

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 14:49

The media continues to be interested:

"WATCH: Sturgeon She/Hers on the Side of Caution…"
twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/1622605885125148675?s=46&t=KXw1jod35_jmldDoObsZRA

"Stop digging, Nicola! Sturgeon refers to trans rapist Isla Bryson as 'her' before correcting to 'the individual' and insisting the important thing is 'they are in prison'"
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11718393/Nicola-Sturgeon-flounders-calling-trans-rapist-Isla-Bryson-her.html

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2023 14:39

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-accused-gagging-own-mps-stalin-2473803

Not members, MSPs:

'A controversial change to standing orders was overwhelmingly agreed at conference yesterday and states that no MPs shall “publicly criticise a group decision, policy or another member of the group”.

The move prompted criticism from opponents that the party is shutting down open debate within its ranks.'

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2023 14:39

Myotherpetisamouse · 06/02/2023 13:45

Part of the SNP constitution is that members are forbidden to question the leadership- so they’re a bit stuck with her.
Ultimately that will have to change. It’s more like to constitution of a dictatorship currently.

As I understand it they're also forbidden from criticising party policy.

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