This company are now a complete laughing stock and I hope they go out of business.

When I hear the whole 'bad as both sides' thing, I do wonder how the person trying to convince themselves that that is the case have managed to ignore the plethora of violent actions of TRA's and the lack of an equivalent from women fighting for their rights.

There's no equivalent from women of the 'decapitate terfs' sign. Women don't protest at trans events while blocking, spitting at and pushing participants. Women don't chalk sexual threats outside venues. There's no equivalent of this - www.terfisaslur.com. etc etc etc.

The so-called equivalent seems to be women speaking directly. It seems to jar people that women aren't abiding by the social conditioning they grow up with to 'be kind'. The TRA tactics of no debate, no platforming and the silencing effect worked for so long that people new to this seem to get a bit of a shock that women object to organisations up and down the country and many of their elected politicians tell them to shut up, while standing under signs calling for women to be beheaded as an example. The phrase Women won't wheesht has taken hold because women have had enough of being told to be quiet 'for Indy' or until x,y,z are sorted.

I got told this week that I was aggressive and angry and he wasn’t going to engage with me because I told a man that it should not be his choice whether women accepted a male person in their prison, even with that male’s cock chopped off.

I think he took exception to the blunt ‘cock chopped off’ language and being told no at the same time.

It never once occurred to him that telling women what they should accept and what they should be comfortable, and then censoring my language was a sure sign of a misogynist….. he flounced in outrage.

“That poster might be a TRA troll” = “vitriol” from women.

“Die in a grease fire / eat a dick / decapitate TERFs / kill JKR / shoot a TERF today / got my anti-TERF gun / choke on my ladydick” = well it’s not great but it’s both sides, innit.

Aye, whatever 🙄

In honour of KJK

WOMAN ADULT HUMAN FEMALE

It's entirely up to them who they supply or dont

Knee jerk vitriol on 'both sides'

<looks at the signs advocating beheading and rape with smiling MSPs beneath. Looks at the mob in balaclavas throwing smoke bombs and screaming to stop women talking about their 'lived experience'. Looks at the throwing of homosexuals out of Pride. Looks at the insistence that rapists and violent, dangerous men in women's prisons are a good thing. Looks at the demand to march into women's spaces in a kind of 'inclusion' that excludes vulnerable women from anything at all so men get choice.>

<looks at stickers stating reality and the downsides of all this from women, and women insisting on stating reality and truth when men don't want them to>

<draws own conclusions and buggers off>

It's the shock of women speaking bluntly rather than what they say. It's tone policing.

It's so rare for women to just baldly state what is, and isn't, and to not give a damn about the feelings of the audience.

Tone has a place when we are trying to persuade.
This board isn't an exercise in persuasive writing though. It's a place women can express themselves freely. Without being policed for tone.

The 'both sides' thing is such a bizarre one.
On one hand, you have women locked up with rapists, teen swimmers being forced to undress in front of men or give up their dreams and years of training, there's protestors turning up at women's rights meetings, pushing and shoving women, throwing water over them and bashing at the windows, there's the endless death and rape threats on social media and more in-person images at marches of nooses, guillotines, graves, instructions to 'choke on dick', more women than I can count offhand who've lost their jobs and countless more fearful that they will and on and on.
And on the other side, there are women who object to the above and say that female people are real, not stereotypes and are deserving of rights.
Anyone who is 'both sidesing' this is either not paying any attention to what women are actually saying or is so innured to violence against women that their brains automatically dismiss what's right in front of them.

Hello, BleepBlipBop. I too once popped in and suggested the women round here be kinder, soften their words to make them easier to read.

I was taught (rather sharply) about female socialisation, that on this board I could express myself however I wanted, and to expect others too as well. My arse was handed to me, without even a gift bow on top.

As I've read on, and seen what women are dealing with, the sheer bloody ignorance of people who simply can't seem to listen when women speak, I've come to understand it better.

No amount of 'be kind' is going to smooth this shit show into reasonableness. When people will create a third category- men, women and rapists- in order to deny reality, then there's no point in wearing gloves. This is a bare knuckle situation.

Bloody bold fail.

But the knee-jerk vitriol on BOTH sides drowns out the merits of the argument. *
*
Nope. You need to have a clearer look. Women saying no is in no way comparable to the rape and death threats the gender y regularly indulge in. The 'both sides' thing is claptrap. In fact, nothing shows more clearly how this is a men's rights movement than the sexualised violence of the TRA rhetoric.

Also. What possible merit is there in reducing womanhood down to a set of regressive, repressive stereotypes, in opening up women's spaces and the quashing of safeguarding? In the mutilation of young women and the physical, emotional and sexual stunting of our children?

Surely it's easy to print your own stickers providing you use the right paper...

Sorry my message meant to quote @CharlieParley

This is a very interesting point. In the Asher case, the whole thing felt more ‘personal’ because there would actually be a person who was writing on the cake. Here, I presume no individual is actually involved in producing the content apart from the customer. Of course, probably individuals are needed at some point (putting the stickers into an envelope?)

Anyway, good reminder, thank you.

But the knee-jerk vitriol on BOTH sides drowns out the merits of the argument

I'm struggling to see the merit in having men going into women's single sex spaces and persuading children that their bodies are wrong and need medical/surgical intervention

@BleepBipBoop Yes you are missing something. Perhaps if you spent more than 5 minutes reading this board, then you would be aware that certain posters turn up on multiple threads with the sole aim of distracting and diminishing the legitimate concerns of women.

I thought she meant trolls have turned up on the twitter thread in the link. Could be wrong 🤷‍♀️ please , carry on berating us wimmin. If you don't however will we learn?

I second that @EfingNora

I post seldom but I read read read. Thanks, regular posters

@Helleofabore "Women on this board are not here to be neutral educators. Education here happens without plan and often through emotional reactive posts."

Seems like a good time to say most of the women who post here may not be neutral, but educators they most definitely are. I've learned so much here.

When I see threads appreciating JKR or KJK or any of the high profile terfs I want to start a thread for all of you!

Thank you GC Mumsnet!

It's taken them five years to decide this? And would the Asher bakery ruling apply unless it's a new statement KJK has come up with?

Of course the stickers are being used to 'decorate' public property, @MargaritaPie, although you may use a different verb. We don't buy them in order to leave them languishing at the back of a drawer in the spare bedroom.

Tut.

Perhaps not the best decision given the current zeitgeist.

Other sticker companies are available.

I’d be inclined to accept this company can choose who they do business with and that so do those of us who don’t agree with their behaviour. Women are adult human and can shop where they please.

I am still finding my way on the gender debate. I am certainly troubled by a lot of the things happening in the name of trans rights, particularly the erasure of women’s rights and safe spaces. I will of course be informed by the facts not people’s behavior. But the knee-jerk vitriol on BOTH sides drowns out the merits of the argument. Can you really say with a straight face that ALL of the negativity and offensive behavior comes from trans rights supporters? Reading this board for 5 minutes completely disproves that. I know it’s an emotive issue but I think a lot of people are put off by how nasty both sides have gotten. If either side could manage to take the high road —honestly— they would probably get a lot more buy-in from the general public who don’t think too hard about this stuff.

so let me get this right, you are comparing women speaking up about our rights with rape threats, death threats, actual assaults, intimidation, signs saying ‘decapitate terfs’ where a TERF is a woman saying no to violent male rapists being locked up with violent women? You think both sides are equally negative?

so, you’ll have proof that gender critical women are doing the things outlined above won’t you?

have you told the TRA to #bekind yet? How did that go for you? Or is just women you want to pipe down?

What engagement do you expect to get with this post?

Do you expect people to engage with you positively after posting it?

I ask because this week has seen many new posters come into threads and use inflammatory words and admonish posters in general and still expect people to politely engage. Why?

Why expect people to politely interact with you after a post intended to shame?

If you cannot read the many informative posts that may be not in the tone you want to read it in, may I suggest you find particular authors of books that suit you and read them. Women on this board are not here to be neutral educators. Education here happens without plan and often through emotional reactive posts.

Expecting women to ignore the slights, to ignore the constant cognitive distortion tactics of dishonest engagement and to just remain calm at all times seems more like unrealistic expectations. And selfish if posters are looking at our posts as serving them up information in the style they desire.