Sunak: "I know what a woman is – an adult human female"

Your last sentence; do you mean using the “gender” toilets they belong to or the opposite “gender”

Do you mean to ask how would a man feel about using the mens toilets, or the womens toilets? He should feel odd using the ladies toilets. If he has a penis, he is therefore male so should be using the male toilets.

I am in SE Asia at the moment and have just had lunch with an old friend, a journalist of Indian origin. She is very proud that Britain now has a "brown" PM, and explained that both Rishi and his wife come from families of strong women.

The Murtys are interesting. The IT firm that created their wealth was only founded in 1981, with an inital capital of 250 dollars. His mother in law was a rare female engineer and landed her first job with a telephone company by writing to the Chairman complaining about the firm's policy of only recruiting male engineers. She met her husband there and apparently gave him the money to start the firm. The family, especially the mother, are apparently respected in India for being modest and philanthropic. At the same time Rishi's maternal grandmother is credited with selling her jewellery to enable the family to move to the UK from East Africa, whilst his mother runs her own pharmacy business.

Add in two daughters, and his willingness to appoint several women to his cabinet and there is every reason to assume that Rishi is both comfortable around women, and knows that women are adult human females.

Like his politics or not, I am sure Rishi gets it. Most people do.

I also don't think his statement was opportunistic. Nicola forced the issue by rushing through her legislation, seemingly seeking to create a confrontation with Westminster. Easy then for Rishi to clarify his straightforward and uncontroversial views. Leaving the obvious question. Why can't Kier do the same?

Words are important as nearly everyone has found it. Woman is adult human female not male

Who here has said they would give away right to abortion?

You seem to be arguing with issues that are not being presented.

Imagine if you were trans yourself - how would you feel about having to use the toilets of the other gender, how would you feel reading this thread?

if you mean if a transwoman was reading this what would that transwoman feel about using the female toilets after reading this is? They shoul think. t

"Shit I've been putting my selfish needs and want to be validated before the women I'm claiming to be one of, who are in the main telling me it's not acceptable because of many reasons. Maybe I should just use the gents that I'm perfectly entitled to actually use. And if i have problems with the Men in the men's then I'll campaign to raise awareness to the fact that men can present however they like these days but we are still men"

Big pharma is behind being trans?! Ok, we've officially entered conspiracy theory down the Qanon type rabbit hole now if that's what you're saying?!
Unless you mean something else?

*a male who believes (or says) he is a woman, having turned down other counselling provisions offered

stems from a capitalist, multi million dollar pharmaceutical and medical industry in the USA.*

FWR has been miles ahead of you on this one. For years.

I'm interested in what you've said here.
Could you clarify do you think that trans people don't really exist?

No one has said that. Though it gets trotted out when there's no substance to the point being made, or when it's clear the poster has run out of road.

Imagine if you were trans yourself - how would you feel about having to use the toilets of the other gender, how would you feel reading this thread?

Ah, the old: "be kind" admonishment of women. That's when we know posters have run out of road. Toilet provision is sex based.

Imagine if you were a tran-identified male, wouldn't it be kind to lobby for a either a third space that accommodates you and doesn't intrude on women, or seek to change the attitudes of men such that they are kind and don't mind an MtF in their spaces? Given that men and MtF share the same thing in common - biology. And that's what these spaces are based on.

The only thing Rishi Sunak has demonstrated is that it's OK to change your mind.

Several months ago, Rishi Sunak was unable to say what a woman was. When she was PM, Theresa May was TWAW. There are two TWAW Conservatives in the Cabinet: Gillian Keegan and Penny Mordaunt. No-one seems to be demanding their opinion on the Scotland rapist debacle, yet they're actually in Government.

In fact, it wasn't until Liz Truss became Women and Equalities minister that any of the Government firmly stated the GC position.

It’s women’s rights we’re defending
Ok, if you're going to nitpick wording, women's rights.
Some of us don't see trans issues part of women's rights as the only women's rights worth fighting for
In other words some would vote in people who would give away the right to an abortion for example because "at least they know what a woman is!" 🙄
No chance.

I’ll tell you what I think @LemonBounce

I think the feelings of a trans woman don’t trump the safety of women and children, and the feelings of a gender dysphoric child don’t trump the privacy, dignity and safety of every girl in a school.

That’s what I think.

More of a shit than Starmer? Sure.

I ask you again LemonBounce

What did you expect the reaction to be from your post?

And your subsequent posts all seem to be focused on continuing to use emotional manipulation. "demonise", "actively trying to reduce the rights of a minority group." Try writing a post that cuts the crap and make an argument that doesn't position the posters in this thread in a negative light.

a male who believes (or says) he is a woman, having turned down other counselling provisions offered

stems from a capitalist, multi million dollar pharmaceutical and medical industry in the USA.

I'm interested in what you've said here.
Could you clarify do you think that trans people don't really exist?

Imagine if you were trans yourself - how would you feel about having to use the toilets of the other gender, how would you feel reading this thread?

if it's not trans issues

It’s women’s rights we’re defending. At least acknowledge what you’re dismissing

Both of those issues very much sex based. And if some people got their way with self ID the statistics for both of these would become unusable in any way to be able to ensure steps were taken to solve the problems.

Which is why i can't understand people using things like these as something we should be concentrating on whilst ignoring the gender ideology shit show currently happening.

It seems like very disordered thinking.

Well said, my point exactly! Like I said upthread, if it's not trans issues, it's immigrants needing sending to Rwanda etc ...
Would love affordable childcare, I'd have been able to go back to work years ago instead of having to wait until now when the kids are teenagers,would have saved years of struggling financially and just scraping by.
That'd be a vote winner for me, as well as you say better conviction rates for rapists.

Sure.... but that was NOT what the substance of your post was.

You came onto the thread with all the crap about dogwhistles and anti-trans and all the trope and then tried to pass it off as something it was not.

"Just surprised to find posters championing this am confused why this is considered the biggest issue for women right now with so much to choose from. How?"

"Why aren't people more angry about other things like the gender pay gap and domestic violence"

And you are still posting trope that is coming from your own blatant prejudices.

We ARE still discussing these issues that you seem very determined to lie that we don't care about.

Have you even bothered to not come into a thread and ask before you simply decided that you were some kind of morally superior feminist?

Your posts are classic whataboutery and full of your own prejudicial point of view about other posters on this thread.

That's easy. General policy shouldn't be designed based on a couple of weird cases. They aren't representative of a whole group of people and that group shouldn't be demonised because of the actions of a few.

could you tell me how I'm to spot the weird cases prior to them doing the weird thing that gets them arrested and sent to prison?

What rights exactly are being reduced from which group?

Why aren't people more angry about other things like the gender pay gap and domestic violence?

how do you know they’re not? What a strange thing to say. When people are talking about brexit (say), do you assume they don’t care about FGM?

Taking some classic desparation steps - trying to channel the focus onto stigmatising minorities. Classic move.

You're doing it again. We're talking about protecting the rights of women and girls, not 'stigmatising minorities'

Just feels a shame all this energy going into an area actively trying to reduce the rights of a minority group.

It is the other way round. A huge amount of energy has gone into reducing the rights of 50% of the population.

A minority group, while remaining entirely protected by the law, is unnecessarily massively reducing the rights of a majority group.

Say your daughter, one of a group representing 50% of a school, can no longer have a private girls’ lavatories to use but has to wait to go home rather than use them….all because there might be one or two gender questioning pupils who could have been offered a third alternative?

What if you had been raped ( something that happens to no small number of the 50% majority group called women) and wanted to attend a counselling session without a male present due to the threat they pose. But you are told a male who believes (or says) he is a woman, having turned down other counselling provisions offered, says they/he must attend the women’s session? Or the whole rape centre is run by a man who says they are a woman, and tells the women they must reframe their trauma around the presence of male people?

The list goes on.

Furthermore, the minority you speak of will grow due to gender identity ideology indoctrinating many many vulnerable children.

The irony of the left wing validating gender identity ideology is that a lot of it stems from a capitalist, multi million dollar pharmaceutical and medical industry in the USA.

That’s why Conservatives keep getting voted in, they listen, bend and change with public opinion. Unlike Labour who just patronise the public and tell us we need to think like they tell us to.

Yep. As PP’s have said, Sunak saying this to win votes is him doing his fucking job. Listening to public opinion and being broadly in line with it. Turns out public opinion is GC.

in my lifetime the Tories have won 8 general elections and Labour have won 3. A little introspection about why that is would be very good for Labour

Let me make it clearer.

Conservatives have a horrific record on women.
And the economy, NHS, social care etc
Truly is a party in their dying throes.

Taking some classic desparation steps - trying to channel the focus onto stigmatising minorities. Classic move.

Just surprised to find posters championing this am confused why this is considered the biggest issue for women right now with so much to choose from. How?

Why aren't people more angry about other things like the gender pay gap and domestic violence?

A lot on here keep blaming the Tories for Brexit, if you remember Corbyn who was labour leader at the time ,refused to support remain, in fact as a Marxist he was ideologically suppoive of Brexit and and had to be sat on to stop him coming out as a Brexiter.

During the remain/Brexit debates Labour leadership were on the fence and did not have a party line.
So actually blaming the Tories for Brexit is a flawed argument. They held the referendum and and have had to deal with the fallout, but the. Corbyn labour leadership did nothing to advocate for remaining.
Its happening again with self ID, TWAW and the militant in labour are setting the agenda, Labour are not listening or reacting to the voters.
the best Sunaks critics can do on here is say that Rishi is only GC because he wants womens and the popular vote. that’s not a bug it’s a feature.

I too will never vote for any political party that does not recognise and respect that I am a woman - an adult human female, with a right to have dignity, privacy and protection in designated single sex spaces.