Prof Jo Phoenix on R4 Antisocial 3/2/23

Really interesting programme, which wouldn't have seen the light of day a year or so ago. Prof. Phoenix was great.

That’s an excellent summary. Exactly this.

Steph was dire, despite the fact that this is apparently Steph's 'specialist subject'. Long, rambling 'answers' that bore no relation to the question interspersed with heated accounts of what a bad time transwomen have in the male estate. I don't think Steph is very bright. Both the presenter and Jo Phoenix were very patient in waiting for Steph to make a substantive point or actually get to grips with the issues. At the end Jo Phoenix was positively kind in gently framing a question in very simple terms in the hope of eliciting a meaningful answer they could debate.

It was frustrating in that one side contributed nothing useful to the discussion. But it really exposed the fact that without slippery wordsmithery they've got nothing. Nothing at all.

The most noticeable thing about the stats was that there really aren't any reliable ones, or at least very few. Is it too much to ask that if the prison service is enacting this dangerous experiment on imprisoned women, that they should be expected to carefully monitor the impact?

Fleming ‘why were we not able to talk about this before?’
Well, surely you would be the expert in that Adam - why weren’t you covering it?

Just listening now. Hadn’t come across Steph Richards before - but sex immediately obvious when you hear them speak

I thought Jo Phoenix was brilliant. Clear and calm and managed to get some good points across.

It was interesting that the BBC actually did some research. They went away and looked at the prison risk assessment and had the relevant stats. It’s a shame I’m surprised that they bothered, given that they don’t normally.

I genuinely think the pink leggings played a not insignificant part

I mean it should be challenged life on air. It is the BBC laying down a partisan position for the debate.

Steph's approach to managing risk is to identify the most important group (clue: it ain't women), set things up to suit that group, and then firefight the problems as they arise.

Yes @WalkthisWayUK I thought this comment was naive at best…. At worst… just dangerous.

Adam Fleming like many make BBC broadcasters is dismissive of women’s concerns sadly. Ugh.

Jo Phoenix came across brilliantly - clear, measured and taking sense. Made my day to hear this on the beeb. I didn’t hear all of the article, but I hope she got her job back?

It’s quite revealing listening to Steph, she just does not get it at all. Asking for more trans lobbying group involvement as the answer to the problem?

This shows zero understanding and is completely from a trans bubble. Risk assessment is a serious business, or should be. Lobbying groups should not be anywhere near a risk assessment!

THIS! x 1000.

whilst I was very very pleased to hear this on mainstream radio - the impacts of trans on women was still being ignored!

This should be challenged. Who wrote the guidelines that say the BBC must not tell the truth? That make people think these are women’s crimes? What assessment was made of the impact of false reporting on women?
**
I believe we have trans media watch led by Helen belcher OBE to thank for this. HB has been working on this for years. It’s like everything we see coming out now, behind the scenes people like HB have been consistently lobbying and pushing the TRA agenda; the vast majority of ppl have no idea how influential they’ve been

You can see why they were all for #nodebate. Nothing makes any sense under questioning.

I heard this. Basically unless a woman is assaulted or raped, reports it, it's investigated, the offender is charged and convicted...not only did it never happen but a woman has to have been avoidably harmed to prove what is obvious to everyone who doesn't live in a Stonewall-soaked online world.

Yes, despite all the ‘I’m for women’s rights’ rhetoric, this showed what Steph really thinks about putting women at risk.

Steph states 'I don't know anything about that' regarding incidents gainst women d then later references the influence of Karen White's attacks in changed English policies.

Disingenuous dickhead.

I was screaming at the radio, but think the excellent proff did a bang up job there!

I'm pretty sure that Bryson's victims would prefer that the man who raped them was referred to as 'he'.

Do the BBC always do what rapists prefer? Do they really think their feelings are more important than those of their victims?

I can't believe he cut her off just as she was saying that the process needed to include representation of women s well as trans people!!

The programme ended with Prof Phoenix speaking directly with Steph Richards. She spoke as though she was speaking to a child or to someone with learning difficulties. It wasn't condescending, it was justified.

Here's Steph talking about the risks:

Adam Fleming: What went wrong with Isla Bryson?

Putting to one side Prof Phoenix's measured terms, I'd say that I'm not convinced that anything did as far as the processes were concerned. What went wrong was the timing meant there was huge publicity and the public were horrified by what they were seeing.

This is brilliant! A proper grown up look at the evidence. Just confirmed that the SPS risk assessment on TW did not consider the risk to women!

Antisocial previously looked at trans issues and I thought it was dire and biased. This is so much better. They’ll actually bothered looking at facts and data!