India Willoughby, Question Time Thu 2 Feb 2240

And this morning Labour MP Nadia Whittome continues to make it clear that the LP will follow the TWAW and self ID route.

twitter.com/NadiaWhittomeMP/status/1621111231506485249

Insisting that there is 'no detrimental impact on women's rights'.

Either stupid or a liar.

When India finished one of her long answers, there wasn't a single clap from the audience in the gap before the next person started speaking. Silence. That must have been a bit uncomfortable for her.

Unless I misheard, when Ella Whelan asks Jenny Gilruth directly about whether Adam Graham is a man or a woman:

Fiona Bruce interjects with 'who now calls himself Isla Bryson'

Bad show Fiona, how dare you misgender etc etc.

You KNOW, just like we ALL know, that the whole thing is nonsense, even if you pretend not to.

I think it's an inevitable pendulum swing Endless

Previously, not enough was known about trauma and mental health issues.

Awareness has grown exponentially in recent years (largely to do with access to knowledge online), which has been good and important in many ways.

But, as often seems to be the case, it then goes too far. With saturation, the issue gets only superficially understood, latched onto, appropriated, commercialised etc.

Then the real value of the original awareness raising can get lost and it becomes counterproductive for society at large, iatrogenic (self perpetuating), and diluted or unhelpful for those who would have originally benefitted from increased awareness and support.

Hopefully, a balance can be reached. Hopefully, an understanding that the value of knowing the roots and effects of trauma and mental health issues, lies not in keeping people stuck in it, or identifying with it, but in using this as a basis to create systems and support that genuinely aims to help people who need it to access life beyond these issues as much as is possible.

There was a growing movement towards resilience focus in mental health a few years ago, but that seems to have dissipated.

Good mental health and maturity needs to be attractive and needs role models. I think I see less celebrity icons talking about growing through their challenges these days, and more who identify with them. Does anyone else see this?

Jic anyone new to the thread hasn't seen the link. Please consider signing and sharing the Government petition, we need a debate over single sex spaces.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4722618-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-2?page=2&reply=123212657

So, that's Boy George's "goddess energy" is it? Pissing in the ladies toilet! That makes you "a goddess", but only if you're a man.

I've turned autocorrupt 'terfy', it finished that sentence for me!

Boy George...

2008
www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/dec/05/2

2016
www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/boy-george-attack-victim-slams-7110222

2022

uk.news.yahoo.com/boy-george-victim-slams-inclusion-080000212.html

Showing the regard given to victims of male violence

It used to be called gender dysphoria and classed as a mental health issue - why has this suddenly changed?

On the clip someone posted yesterday on another thread of IW and Kellie-jay on This Morning, IW actually says “I have gender dysmorphia” - so basically admits they think of themselves as a woman (but presumably know they are not?)

Im not sure why that has now changed to “I am a biological woman”. I suspect IW has thus far been living in an echo chamber and has become so saturated in lies they don’t really know who/what they are at all but just repeatedly bleat out “I am a woman” in the hope they can bully/brainwash the sceptics into submission.

On that Big Brother clip when IW shouts “I am a woman”! You can tell all the women are thinking “No…no you’re not though” but are too afraid to say it.

Boy George is at least familiar with prisons, having spent time in one for assault and false imprisonment when he handcuffed a male escort he'd hired to a radiator and beat him with a metal chain.

He uses male pronouns and was housed in a male prison, so if he pops into the ladies' loos that just shows a lack of understanding of women's boundaries, the need for safeguarding of vulnerable women and girls, and our right to dignity and privacy away from the kind of men who handcuff people to radiators and beat them.

This was what infuriated me about the discussion last night (and in general)

The debate keeps being around the needs of "genuine" trans women and how vulnerable they are but that's not what people are talking about with the Isla scandal.
People are on about the fact the Gov is making it easy for predatory men to dupe the system with no safeguards in place with the law they have passed. NS has more or less admitted in she doesn't think "Isla" is genuine! That's the bottom line and that's what politicians should be answering too.

@Felix125 tiger bloke, I'm pretty certain, committed suicide a few years ago.

Rhonda Hotchkiss said, without approval from a bigwig (not sure if prison service or minister), they have to go in general population after 72 hours. I'm not if this applied to solitary only or also segregation. As pp said, segregated means the rapist/Adam/Isla/he would have been mixing with women prisoners anyway. Just a smaller number.

TERF is a slur aimed at women who know sex is binary, immutable and sometimes matters. Oddly enough seldom used for men who know these things - looks like trans activists actually do know the difference between men & women when it comes to put-downs.

It is an acronym for Trans Excluding Radical Feminist - a misnomer because radical feminists exclude men, however they identify, and include women, whether they want to be women or not, and because few TERFs are in fact radical feminists. There’s nothing particularly radical about a reality-based approach.

”Cis” isn’t an acronym. It’s a prefix from chemistry & geography, and the opposite of the prefix trans. Transalpine Gaul was Gaul on the other side of the Alps from Rome, Cisalpine Gaul was the same side of the Alps from Rome.

When the term transsexual started to morph into transgender the activists started defining people who don’t identify as the sex they’re not as “cis”. This is to make us out to be a subset of the sex we are, and to make it seem as if people who are factually not that sex appear part of that sex class.

This is why Gender Identity Theologians can be very insistent that trans & cis are adjectives, and to be written trans woman, so as to imply we’re just all different types of women.

It often appears in the racist rhetorical formulation that “black women are women, so trans women are women,” aka hiding misogyny behind their racism.

Boy George uses women’s toilets.

Nuff said.

Trans dogs aren’t cats you bigot!

Sure, they look like cats, act like cats and have the DNA of cats but they were born in the wrong body and it’s not something they chose so we all need to Be Kind and pretend that the creature shimmying up the curtains with a dead mouse in it’s mouth is definitely, absolutely and one hundred percent a dog, just like all the other dogs.

Sorry, back to prisons. There has just been an inspection of the womens' prison near me, Eastwood Park (suffice it to say it wasn't good). The journo has posted some of the photos of an isolation cell (I hope this links) twitter.com/DanJohnsonNews/status/1621433348999581699

Those poor women

It used to be called Gender Identity Disorder (GID), but it offended sufferers to be diagnosed with a personality disorder, so TAs lobbied to get the wording changed to ‘Gender Dysphoria’ ie ‘gender sadness’.

GID is a much more accurate description and as a society, we have a serious issue if people with disorders are able to define themselves instead of professionals.

I know there are issues with certain words which used to be in common parlance that aren’t any more. Back in the day when eugenics proponents wanted to get people out of the gene pool, there were diagnosis/categorisations like ‘imbecile’ or ‘idiot’. I was shocked and chilled to discover that.

However, calling something a ‘disorder’ is not of the same ilk at all. You actually need an accurate name to describe conditions which cause people challenges and distress, so they can be managed appropriately. ‘Gender sadness’ does not cut it in meaning. It is obviously an identity disorder - a confusion about who you actually are, and it is about what sex you are or what gender roles and stereotypes you are drawn towards, so ‘gender identity disorder’ seems pretty apt to me.

Gall10 TERFs stands for 'trans exclusionary radical feminists' - of 'feminists' as we used to be called.

'Cis' is a makey-uppy back construction to distinguish adult human females (or males) aka women and men, from the very varied group of people lumped together as 'trans'. It's based on the 'reasoning' that if there was transalpine Gaul and cisalpine Gaul then the terms can be applied to humans (in a context not describing what side of the alps we're on).

hormone washing in the womb

what the actual?

The bit that's riling me at the moment is the lack of SNP ability to say the Rapist is a man.
What happens in 2/3 years when he's back in the community in his pink leggings, I firmly believe he should be in the male toilets, what's going to stop him attacking a woman in the female toilets, or joining a gym with communal changing rooms?

Because I believe he is the sort who'll attacking and hurt again

Oh boy....

I didn't get a chance to see QT and I'm in Ireland so no BBC iplayer. Did IW apologise for inferring that victim's of rape be sent to prison?

The best thing he could have done is to say 'that rapist isn't trans and has nothing in common with me so I cannot speak for him'.

I haven't watched it yet, so I'm guessing that didn't happen?

Well "trans" is the only one that actually empties the noun of its meaning. It literally means the noun no longer means female. The others don't do that.

It is like having a black dog, a brown dog, a fat dog, a thin dog and a feline dog.

Thanks NicolaSturgeon and RichardBarrister for explaining that. I find it genuinely distressing that such blatant manipulation of the truth is allowed to pass unchallenged.

But then I suppose I shouldn't expect anything else from people who will contort their speech and deploy all manner of smoke and mirrors to avoid saying that a rapist is a man and that human beings can't change sex.

Terf stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminist. It was originally a neutral descriptor and actually necessary, because actual radical feminism (short lived and outdated) stated that sex was entirely irrelevant, nothing but a construct, and there was therefore no reason transwomen could not be anything women could be. There was a subsect that called itself radical feminism but didn't agree on this point (unsurprisingly, since it's clearly nonsense).

These days, the term has been rediscovered and is now used as a slur against anyone who doesn't believe transwomen are women. It's handy because everyone hates a feminist and a RADICAL one must be the worst one of all. It's even more stupid because the understanding that men aren't women, women aren't men and sex can't change, may be many things...but radical, it certainly is not. And I would bet that if you looked at most people who believe this, one thing you'd find is that very few of them would in fact be radical feminists.

"Cis woman" just means woman. The prefix was added to dilute the definition and make it easier, semantically, to argue that transwomen are women. There's a scientific root in the term but they actually got it the wrong way round so don't worry about it.

I've not heard of hormone washing in the womb, but I can't imagine it's good news. It might be something to do with how some people argue that since hormones are responsible for developing a foetus' sex in the womb, you can get the exact same effect by taking hormones as a grown adult.

I know their ideology says that ‘trans is an adjective not a prefix’ but if that were true it would have to be a magical adjective

Tall woman = an adult female human of greater than average height
Old woman = an adult female human who has lived for a long time.
Black woman = an adult female human with dark-coloured skin, especially one of sub-Saharan African ancestry

Trans woman = an adult MALE human who says he’s a female human (and who might have altered his appearance via hormonal and surgical methods).

One of these ‘adjectives’ is very much not like the others!

Fiona Bruce is a very poor presenter for QT.

IW is an absolute tool