Page 2 | Mother challenges school over compulsory Pride march

Imnobody4 · 2023-01-31T18:34:12+00:00

This looks like an important case. https://christianconcern.com/news/mother-to-challenge-school-that-forced-4-year-old-to-take-part-in-pride-event/ A Christian mother whose four-year-old son was required to take part in a school’s LGBT pride parade against her will is to have her legal case heard in court this week. Izzy Montague made national headlines after being aggressively told by the headteacher of Heaver’s Farm Primary School in Croydon, South London, that her son could not opt-out of the Pride event, despite the families’ Christian beliefs. The case is the first time that a UK court will scrutinise the legality of imposing LGBT ideology on primary schools. The court will look at the impact it has on religious discrimination, the human rights of parents and their children, the right to opt out of sex education, and a schools’ duty of political neutrality. The case is set to be heard at Central London County Court for eight days, from Wednesday 1 February 2023. The deputy head teacher was a trained Stonewall ‘champion’ who was given a brief by the school to focus on the theme of “no hierarchy of equalities” during so-called Pride month (June). No advance warning was given to parents, and Izzy only learnt of the parade from a newspaper article. After requesting that her son be withdrawn from the parade, Izzy was told that if her son did not attend it would be seen as a behavioural issue.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/02/2023 16:26

MoltenLasagne · Today 15:45
You are right. I misread Imnobody4’s post.

Please accept my apologies Imnobody

SunnieShine · 04/02/2023 16:10

I'm a lesbian and wouldn't touch "Pride" with a barge pole. I hate what it's become.

MoltenLasagne · 04/02/2023 15:45

ScrollingLeaves · 04/02/2023 14:52

Imnobody4 · Yesterday 21:10
In state-funded schools in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, parents do have the right to opt their children out of collective worship – and in England and Wales, this right transfers from parent to pupil once the pupil reaches the sixth form

No, you are not correct here, unfortunately.

The law has changed and there is no right to opt out.

“There is no right to withdraw from Relationships Education at primary or secondary as we believe the contents of these subjects – such as family, friendship, safety (including online safety) – are important for all children to be taught.5 Apr 2019”
www.gov.uk › news › relatio...
Relationships education, relationships and sex education (RSE ... - GOV.UK)

Written by PSHE Association | Apr 9, 2019 4:00:00 AM

What are the new requirements?

The Health Education and Relationships Education (primary) and the secondary Relationships and Sex Education (RSE) aspects of PSHE education will be compulsory in all schools from 2020.

I think these are two different things. Parents have the right to opt out of collective worship still, it is the right to opt out of relationship education that has been removed.

What has become concerning is that many schools are outsourcing this PHSE to unvetted, untrained outside agencies and not letting parents review the material. It's how absolute trash like the gender bread gender person got into schools.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/02/2023 14:52

Imnobody4 · Yesterday 21:10
In state-funded schools in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, parents do have the right to opt their children out of collective worship – and in England and Wales, this right transfers from parent to pupil once the pupil reaches the sixth form

No, you are not correct here, unfortunately.

The law has changed and there is no right to opt out.

“There is no right to withdraw from Relationships Education at primary or secondary as we believe the contents of these subjects – such as family, friendship, safety (including online safety) – are important for all children to be taught.5 Apr 2019”
www.gov.uk › news › relatio...
Relationships education, relationships and sex education (RSE ... - GOV.UK)

Written by PSHE Association | Apr 9, 2019 4:00:00 AM

What are the new requirements?

The Health Education and Relationships Education (primary) and the secondary Relationships and Sex Education (RSE) aspects of PSHE education will be compulsory in all schools from 2020.

JKRfan · 04/02/2023 14:05

TheWitchesAreBackInTown · 04/02/2023 13:57

Most Jehovah Witnesses I met withdraw their children from religious content or celebrations. They are accommodated. Why should this be any different for a different group of people about a different ideology?

When I was at a state Comprehensive in mid 1970s, one Jewish pupil (or her parents on her behalf lol) chose to sit on the balcony, so she was free to leave if anything in the assembly didn't sit right with her.

JKRfan · 04/02/2023 14:02

JKRfan · 04/02/2023 13:15

Apologies...it seems despite having the first openly gay Cabinet Minister in 1979, Section 28 was not repealed by the Blair Government till 2003 in England and Wales but no doubt the climate changed sooner; and indeed it was repealed earlier in Scotland in 2000 as devolution got going.

Sorry 1997 for the first Cabinet Minister. 1979 is when Thatcher was elected.

TheWitchesAreBackInTown · 04/02/2023 13:57

Most Jehovah Witnesses I met withdraw their children from religious content or celebrations. They are accommodated. Why should this be any different for a different group of people about a different ideology?

SinnerBoy · 04/02/2023 13:34

Imnobody4 · Yesterday 21:10

In state-funded schools in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, parents do have the right to opt their children out of collective worship...

Oh, pish and tish! None of that matters in Mardy Pie land, what's important is to be loud, confident and wrong; and to expect rational people to believe you.

JKRfan · 04/02/2023 13:15

Apologies...it seems despite having the first openly gay Cabinet Minister in 1979, Section 28 was not repealed by the Blair Government till 2003 in England and Wales but no doubt the climate changed sooner; and indeed it was repealed earlier in Scotland in 2000 as devolution got going.

JKRfan · 04/02/2023 13:00

VoodooQualities I agree and it was much healthier to have a debate around a topic (even if only for a discursive essay in English e.g. pro or anti death penalty/abortion/preferred type of electoral system etc).
It meant that teachers had to present impartially and so allow all shades of opinion to emerge or prompt them.
Far healthier than having a political group like Stonewall coming in and indoctrinating kids to their 'way' and allowing 'no debate'.
I even had a history teacher who used to like to dramatise topics (eg you be the factory owner, I'll be a cotton worker let's negotiate terms and conditions in the 19th century) and thus in covering trade unions for O'Level History, I was convinced he was a Labour voter. It turned out he was a life-long Tory on free speech grounds.
Impartial presentation but allow all views to emerge. Allows pupils to learn critical thinking skills....clearly been sorely lacking for many years.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 04/02/2023 09:03

Imnobody4 · 03/02/2023 21:10

In state-funded schools in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, parents do have the right to opt their children out of collective worship – and in England and Wales, this right transfers from parent to pupil once the pupil reaches the sixth form. Note that pupils can also be partly opted out, so it should in theory be possible to remove a pupil from worship, while ensuring they do not miss any assemblies that are conducted in an inclusive way, or indeed the parts of an assembly that are not spent worshipping. Pupils who are not yet in sixth form cannot opt themselves out of worship as this right rests with their parents.

Show quote history

Yep, so arguably what the mother wanted to do here is use the same rights as parents and sixth formers already have in relation to religion.

VoodooQualities · 04/02/2023 08:56

MargaritaPie · 03/02/2023 20:59

"Fairly sure my own children didn't experience such indoctrination 20 years ago."

You're right. (Approx) 20 years ago we had section 28 and schools literally weren't even allowed to mention the words gay/bi/lesbian/trans at all.

Absolute nonsense.

I left school just before S28 was removed and I distinctly remember homosexuality and transexuality being discussed in (1) biology lessons and (2) religious studies lessons and (3) extra-curricular debating society.

We actually debated 'This house believes Section 28 should be repealed'. How's that for 'literally weren't allowed to mention'?

RS was called RS but it wasn't really, it was a weekly topic set by the teacher in advance which we debated as a class. Looking back now that will have been how he got around S28 - setting a topic and having us debate it ourselves. I.e. no 'promotion', just student-led debate. Brave of him to do that I guess.

But you're just plain wrong when you say 'literally weren't allowed to mention'.

AlisonDonut · 04/02/2023 08:20

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ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 23:46

It is an extremely bad thing imo that a 4 year old has to be Involved with anything other than that there are are all sorts of families and loving and caring and looking after each other is what matters. That’s it.

No one of any age should ever have to go on a march of any kind. Schools have no right to act like the stasi with their private political and sexual agendas.

This will not help gay people.

OneMorePlant · 03/02/2023 23:31

I hope she wins big.

Why would you force 4 year olds into a pride parade wtf?

Nimbostratus100 · 03/02/2023 22:31

as a member of the LGB community, I love Pride, and look forward to the marches, but they are for us, not for heterosexual people, or their children.

Why would it be compulsory in a school? That is totally NOT what Pride is for.

I would complain about that

Southwestten · 03/02/2023 22:27

We don’t force religion on children. Why should we force this?

Agree.

ChristinaXYZ · 03/02/2023 21:26

MargaritaPie · 03/02/2023 20:59

"Fairly sure my own children didn't experience such indoctrination 20 years ago."

You're right. (Approx) 20 years ago we had section 28 and schools literally weren't even allowed to mention the words gay/bi/lesbian/trans at all.

Of course we were allowed to mention them - you just had to be careful not to do so in a way that was considered 'promoting'. I was very glad when section 28 was got rid of, but it is daft to exagerate its effect on the teaching of the time - little would have been different. To be fair I was in my 20s but most of my colleagues had completeled their training in the late 60s of the 70s and were mainly of an age not to be all that confortable with the subject full-stop. There was no clamour amongst staff to discuss it never mind promote it. But the way you put it makes it sound like there was a deathly, difficult silence if anyone brought the subject up - which there was not. Kids told their form teachers about things, we dealt with homophobic bullying, sometimes issues came up in lessons - and these were discussed though admittedly not in depth and pure facts, no opinions. And frankly more facts and fewer staff opinions are what's needed in schools now.

JKRfan · 03/02/2023 21:25

MargaritaPie · 03/02/2023 20:59

"Fairly sure my own children didn't experience such indoctrination 20 years ago."

You're right. (Approx) 20 years ago we had section 28 and schools literally weren't even allowed to mention the words gay/bi/lesbian/trans at all.

Absolute rubbish Blair was elected in 1997 and that is more than 20 years ago.

Original poster

Imnobody4 · 03/02/2023 21:10

MargaritaPie · 03/02/2023 20:57

Speaking of Christianity and primary schools, should we address the fact some primary schools are still assuming all children are Christian by default and requiring them to pray and sing religious songs?

In state-funded schools in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, parents do have the right to opt their children out of collective worship – and in England and Wales, this right transfers from parent to pupil once the pupil reaches the sixth form. Note that pupils can also be partly opted out, so it should in theory be possible to remove a pupil from worship, while ensuring they do not miss any assemblies that are conducted in an inclusive way, or indeed the parts of an assembly that are not spent worshipping. Pupils who are not yet in sixth form cannot opt themselves out of worship as this right rests with their parents.

OP posts:

Soubriquet · 03/02/2023 21:03

LGB* sorry. I refuse to use the T

Soubriquet · 03/02/2023 21:02

I’m part of lbt and even I think the mother is in the right.

We don’t force religion on children. Why should we force this?

As long as they aren’t out and loudly saying gay people should burn in hell, then I have no problems.

You wanna be homophobic in your own home, go for it. But in public, I expect you to be decent

MargaritaPie · 03/02/2023 20:59

"Fairly sure my own children didn't experience such indoctrination 20 years ago."

You're right. (Approx) 20 years ago we had section 28 and schools literally weren't even allowed to mention the words gay/bi/lesbian/trans at all.

MargaritaPie · 03/02/2023 20:57

Speaking of Christianity and primary schools, should we address the fact some primary schools are still assuming all children are Christian by default and requiring them to pray and sing religious songs?

ChristinaXYZ · 03/02/2023 20:51

The fact that the head's daughter is employed at the school and then wears a t-shirt with a political slogan "During that meeting, Ms Papas’s daughter, who also works for the school, was present and wore a T-shirt with the slogan: “Why be racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic when you could just be quiet?”." suggests that the daughter is a young 20s of the type that has bullied her parents with her 'progresive' views and the head is too soft or frightened to stand up to her at work.

I have found out more about the daughter who is admin not teaching staff and it won't surprise anyone to learn is the writer of such papers as: "Images of the Phallus? A Feminist Psychoanalytic Approach to the Roles of the Penis, the Phallus and Hegemonic Gender Norms in "Feminist Porn"."

Whatever the reason for the head allowing this and whatever the out-come of the case the school govenors need to be asking questions about the daughter's behaviour and the head's seemingly nepotistic response to overtly-poltical behaviour at Heavers Farm Primary School.