Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

This is what I can’t get my head around! Why would they vote against that? Surely even for cynical PR purposes they should have??

She and they probably thought they'd #bekind.

Mate, have you seen the way gender supremecists talk about gender critical women? Not to mention turning up in person with threats of violence.

Please pop over to them and ask them not to be so hateful to women who are simply standing up for the existence and political and social recognition of female people.

Because if you really want to see what marginalised and discriminated against looks like, look at the history of women. Look at the stories women are telling right now in the relationships board. Look at the front page of Pornhub and tell me society sees female people as equal and worthy of male respect.

And I'm sorry if challenging the mantra "trans women are women" is hurtful to trans women. I would much rather we could go back to it being a polite fiction, appreciated by trans women but understood by all concerned as a courtesy not a fact.

But this phrase left unchallenged is being leveraged to undefine female people as a legitimate political and social group, to silence us as a legitimate voice with the right to advocate for our own needs.

So until that stops happening, I'm afraid women (the original female version) cannot afford the luxury of being kind to men who would undefine us.

No, why should I? They don’t care about women.

All this is great IF it means an end to men (however they identify) in women’s prisons in the whole of the UK. For a start. This isn’t just about what’s happening now in Scotland.

A lot of MNers were first turned on to all this back around 2015, when something very similar was happening in England, and it’s actually been going on since the 1980s.

And yet, they voted against that just a month back.

The feelings of men who say they are women Vs the very real threat of sexual violence against female prisoners.

Guess which one I don't give a fuck about about?

Housing male prisoners, sex offenders or not, in the female prison estate is a human rights abuse akin to torture as far as I'm concerned so don't ask me to care about hurt feelings.

By Christ! If they can't handle what's being said on here then they need psychiatric help!

Absolutely. The press could no longer ignore it.
It was overreach that brought it to this. If they had voted for the amendment to keep men out of women's prisons it may not have blown up like this.

100% this. Forcing the press was key, she thought she was being clever and forcing Westminster's hand.

This will bells on. Finally people are waking up

Do any of you ever think about how a trans woman would feel stumbling across your threads on here?

Surely not half as bad as they'd feel about Wee Nic and her fellow (supposed) trans allies cheerily going on record to say that a trans-woman is only a woman up until the moment she commits a crime, and thereafter she's not a "real woman" and belongs in a male prison?

Et tu, Brutus, comes to mind.

People who are gender critical and reject Self ID are far more consistent less hypocritical in their position.

Hmm, NS looked a bit flat and defeated in that interview for sure. She'll never back down on her general stance imo as she's a megalomaniac and can never be wrong. However she is looking weaker by the day and will hopefully soon be ousted, fingers crossed.

I have reverted to my old username in celebration of the fact we now seem to be able to say this? awaits deletion

Amen.

All this. With bells on.

Absolutely correct.

If she is forced to resign she will just be replaced by another head on the hydra.

I don't think there is a single SNP member in the Scottish Parliament who isn't absolutely drenched in gender ideology.

Did a single trans woman stumble here? I dont think so, it's not known as a t#$fy

Site for nothing. How many of them cared enough about us to you know, not invade our spaces?

I feel genuinely sad that plenty of women lost jobs, were silenced with the threat of losing jobs, were raped by a trans woman in hospital then gaslighted for a year, that so many women lost out in sports either never made it to the team or lost a place on the podium that was rightly theirs. I feel genuinely sad that we were called disgusting misogynistic names, that more than one (although one would be one too many) were left out of life because trauma/religion/ whatever meant they could not take the chance of being in a vulnerable position with a trans woman. I feel,genuinely heart wrenching sad that women have been locked up with men of any gender. It's enough to lose your freedom, but torture to do this with men too. They were all unseen and unheard until now. No one gave a shiny shit for them.
You feel any genuine sadness for them? Or is only men you feel sad for?

And finally we have to say twaw brigade because we are banned for other descriptors.

It's almost as though peter and ciaran have been mulling over what to ask when the day finally comes. And, o happy day, here it is!

Ps it is not the same as being gay. Being gay is a fact - how do you know you are gay? Because you want to have sex with people of your sex. No one else needs to pretend for you to be gay. Being trans in its current form is a denial of reality and you are asking other people to lie about what is in front of them. If the "ask" was instead to observe social niceties/be kind (in a smaller sense)/use chosen name etc rather than to pretend in all circumstances then it wouldn't be so controversial.

PPs @LikeAnOldFriend, the suicide rate for trans people seems to peak after full transition. Have you thought about the fact that absolute pretence might not be the best answer for trans people? Certainly not for children, but even in other circumstances it would be hard to believe that people could consent to medical procedures without accepting that their reality will be different from a true sex change. At some level, trans people will always have to accept that their body is not biologically that sex - for reproduction, for medical purposes etc. Some campaigners seem to be very angry and I think this is at the route of it.

The only reason the transwomen would get upset when they come here is because you've gone too far in convincing them that the lie is the truth. And that is what makes the be kind mantra absolutely cruel. Shining the truth in a cruel way is torture but it gets to your soul when you've really taken a lie into your life. There's no need for the truth to be shoved in their faces cruelly. But when we said the truth nicely you called us names and insisted on sharing intimate spaces with us. You want women to care? Well you need to start caring about women.

I’m a bit worried that she still doesn’t get how serious all this is and how incoherent she sounds.
Why else would she and her advisers think it was ok for her to be interviewed by ITV and Channel 4 news and answer questions about her idiotic policy!!

But don't you think an alarmingly short number of years ago it was acceptable in general society to hold a view that being attracted so someone of the same sex shows disordered thinking, they need help with mental illness / conversion therapy, not to be allowed to continue with this".

Conflation of sexuality with 'gender identity' is ridiculous and was a very sneaky trick. You might just as well say that, because it is terrible that interracial relationships were once forbidden or frowned upon, we shouldn't say that people can't identify as whatever race they like. The two things are not connected. Being (quite rightly) free to have a relationship with any consenting adult you choose is not remotely the same thing as demanding that the world agrees (or legally recognises) you as something which you categorically are not and never can be.

No group is more marginalised than Women.
A man from boyhood has nearly always had advantages compared to women and girls.

For a man to want to sidle in to women’s spaces to my mind is deeply insulting and grossly unfair.

Dress how one likes, but dresses and wigs cannot
CANNOT ever make a male begin to understand what it’s like to be a woman or a girl ,
any more than I can know what it’s like to be a strong boy or man.

The two are very different.

That was glorious.

Mind you, if she has to resign and they try to reanimate Big 'Eck, at least HE knows the difference between XY and XX, since he was pretty good at sex pesting a few of the latter (allegedly).