Page 27 | Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

dunBle · 2023-01-30T19:36:36+00:00

I should imagine the clip will be doing the rounds on twitter shortly if it's not already, but their Scotland correspondant Ciaran Jenkins did a really good job in a brief interview with her when she was on a tour of a TV studio today. Raised the issue of Katie Dolatowski, and got her quite rattled trying to get her to justify her comments about transphobia and racism. Should be on about 8:15/8:20ish if you want to watch it on C4+1

LexMitior · 30/01/2023 22:22

Well okay. Let's see how the SNP do. You know that's the only metric NS has.

I would put money on her fighting this unless her party's polling is affected. If not, she will carry right on with this and some warmed over words.

PermanentlyinUAT · 30/01/2023 22:22

ResisterRex · 30/01/2023 19:55

Spare a thought for the emotional support dogs at Stonewall HQ. They'll have been working overtime to soothe the tired kiddiewinks

#emotionalsupportdogsrightsnow

You had me laughing out loud.I hope the likes of Dr Stock and Allison Bailey are celebrating tonight.

MarshaBradyo · 30/01/2023 22:22

We - the women - we want our fucking stuff back. We want our women’s prisons, our women’s sports, our women’s refuges, our women’s bogs, our right to same-sex care, our fucking WORDS.

Too right.

Boiledbeetle · 30/01/2023 22:22

Theeyeballsinthesky · 30/01/2023 20:06

Link to interview on twitter

Honestly the first time i saw this i thought it was a piss take version then checked the Twitter account and realised it was true!

OMG12 · 30/01/2023 22:20

@LikeAnOldFriend do you think about

children who have had their lives irreversibly damaged by this ideology to the point of their bodies being mutilated?
rape victims being told to “reframe their trauma” to facilitate mens wants
thecwomen who have lost their careers for simply stating reality
a rape victim who spent a year fighting for justice because the NHS refused to accept there was a man on the ward because he identified as a woman
Children exposed to sexualisation belt some very dubious characters where normal safeguarding has gone out the window in the name of inclusivity
women who have suffered threats of violence rape snd death for standing up for women and reality?
women who have been forced into accepting a man as a doctor or rape councillor even though their religion or trauma means only a woman would do. But we can’t risk upsetting men
women being forced to participate in a non- consensual indulgence of a AGP man’s fantasies?

the list goes on.

None of this would have happened if trans women had argued for third spaces, accepted they were different to biological women.

NewFriday · 30/01/2023 22:19

I know it happens to all politicians while they're in office, but goodness she seems to have aged all of a sudden.

Carouselfish · 30/01/2023 22:19

@PacificState and @BernardBlacksMolluscs have replied best to @LikeAnOldFriend

I've long thought, if you're identifying as a woman then the first step would be empathising with women and clearly imagining why mindlessly chanting TWAW and the magical thinking and invasion of single sex spaces that entails, would be a bad thing.

Diynoidea · 30/01/2023 22:19

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 20:50

"Transwomen stumbling across a thread on the Feminism. Sex and Gender board on Mumsnet? Why would they be over here stumbling about?"

I saw this at the very top of the active threads when I clicked in to my mumsnet app, and I'd imagine all others will too.

I do totally understand that the reason you're all so passionate is a desire to protect women's rights, and that's obviously important to me too, but there's the issue of all individuals who experience prejudice and discrimination, including women but also including trans women and men.

I know I'm derailing in joining this conversation, so please feel free not to answer but in seeing some of you deny completely that a trans women is a woman, I wonder if you can tell me if you can accept a woman who has transitioned to a man as a man, or if it's only this way around that it's not acceptable? Do you accept when a person is fully transitioned their chosen gender identity, or never at all?

You. Cannot. Change. Your. DNA.

You can call yourself whatever made up gender you like, but don’t try to force me to call a biological male a female.

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/01/2023 22:17

Nicholas Sturgeon is the best thing I've seen on TV in ages.😆😆😆

Shows how fucking ridiculous the whole thing is.😤

oakleaffy · 30/01/2023 22:17

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 21:51

I know I'm derailing in joining this conversation, so please feel free not to answer but in seeing some of you deny completely that a trans women is a woman, I wonder if you can tell me if you can accept a woman who has transitioned to a man as a man, or if it's only this way around that it's not acceptable? Do you accept when a person is fully transitioned their chosen gender identity, or never at all?

Why does it matter whether some random person 'accepts' someone, though? And what do you mean by 'accept'?

Of course nobody thinks anyone really changes sex. Right? We know that it's a fiction, and in most cases, that's fine. Nobody cares if someone wants to dress a certain way or how they think about themselves. So, I won't 'accept' them in that I can't fool myself into believing something that's impossible.

Or do you mean 'politely pretend that they're the opposite sex'?

Men are men, Women are women, one cannot turn into the other, no matter how many hormones are used, or how much extreme surgery is done.

Transmen don’t seem to be as demanding and in your face as Transwomen, nor do Transmen seek to take part in male sports or go to male only jails.

But everyone knows a person cannot change sex, it’s biologically impossible.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/01/2023 22:17

nilsmousehammer · 30/01/2023 22:12

All of that.

Excellently put. Women are bloody furious.

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We - the women - we want our fucking stuff back. We want our women’s prisons, our women’s sports, our women’s refuges, our women’s bogs, our right to same-sex care, our fucking WORDS.

We also want our children back.

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 22:14

@cigiwi

"This, then is a clear and obvious way in which being gay doesn't, but being trans does, 'show disordered thinking', in your telling phraseology."

This wasn't my phraseology, just to be clear. I was re-using the PP's phrasing quoted in my original post.

DFSsale · 30/01/2023 22:12

borntobequiet · 30/01/2023 20:17

Thank you. My goodness, what a mess.

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Wowzer. I think I’m a little in love with Ciaran Jenkins. What an interview! NS does not like it up her!!!!

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/01/2023 22:12

PineCone74 · 30/01/2023 21:59

I find the idea of convicted rapists in women’s prisons extremely disturbing too. Is it not possible to find two things disturbing at once? I am not saying that I find convicted rapists in women’s prisons less disturbing than the tone of the debate! It is the extremist thinking in some views ( and, as I said, on both sides of this and other issues) which I find difficult as I wonder whether it leads to people being afraid to have any sort of debate about anything, for fear of being totally annihilated.

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I hope that you're new to this debate PineCone? Many (most?) of us started with the be kind mantra wondering what the fuss was about.
You'll find some honest unambiguous words on this side of the debate. On the other side you'll find threats of physical and sexual violence, countless women dismissed, sanctioned and threatened for speaking up for safeguarding, MPs feeling empowered to bully and intimidate women MPs for expressing their legitimate views - and as Sturgeon has demonstrated - vast numbers of people pushing for rapists and sex offenders to be placed in prison cells, hospital wards, M & S changing rooms and anywhere that women undress.
That's the extremism.

nilsmousehammer · 30/01/2023 22:12

ResisterRex · 30/01/2023 22:03

Essential reading for those of us bereft of fucks:

4w.pub/a-message-to-those-recently-opining/

All of that.

Excellently put. Women are bloody furious.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/01/2023 22:10

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 20:50

"Transwomen stumbling across a thread on the Feminism. Sex and Gender board on Mumsnet? Why would they be over here stumbling about?"

I saw this at the very top of the active threads when I clicked in to my mumsnet app, and I'd imagine all others will too.

I do totally understand that the reason you're all so passionate is a desire to protect women's rights, and that's obviously important to me too, but there's the issue of all individuals who experience prejudice and discrimination, including women but also including trans women and men.

I know I'm derailing in joining this conversation, so please feel free not to answer but in seeing some of you deny completely that a trans women is a woman, I wonder if you can tell me if you can accept a woman who has transitioned to a man as a man, or if it's only this way around that it's not acceptable? Do you accept when a person is fully transitioned their chosen gender identity, or never at all?

Never at all. Years ago when the numbers involved were tiny this wasn't an issue that I knew much about or had strong feelings about. But I have never believed anyone can change sex and I never will. I believe it's essential for people to grasp the difference between fact and fiction and to understand that one's sex is material reality and can't be changed, and must therefore be lived with.

CryInToYourCornflakesNicola · 30/01/2023 22:10

IcakethereforeIam · 30/01/2023 22:06

Am I alone in being concerned about these emotional support dogs? These transphobic, homophobic, misogynistic, racists (I don't know how they find thetime) are probably also mean to animals and untoward to paedophiles.

Gasp, not untoward to peadophiles?

How very dare they, I urge you write to your MP immediately.

EdithStourton · 30/01/2023 22:10

LikeAnOldFriend · 30/01/2023 20:55

But don't you think an alarmingly short number of years ago it was acceptable in general society to hold a view that "being attracted so someone of the same sex shows disordered thinking, they need help with mental illness / conversion therapy, not to be allowed to continue with this"....

And now we've thankfully moved on from this.

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Oh FFS.
When I was a kid, back in Ye Darke Ages, everyone knew gay people.

What you didn't have were anguished teenaged girls saying that they were boys. Where has that come from?

Some truly weird shit has gone on since then.

Including Pink Leggings Penis Rapist saying he's a woman and would like to be in a women's prison (closer to his potential victims) and people in authority saying, 'Oh, okay, luv, sod those vulnerable women, hey?'

THAT is why we'e all dancing around at the sight of Nicola twitching and stumbling over her words.

Haven't the time to RTFT as I'm off to bed, so sorry if someone else has said all this.

FrancescaContini · 30/01/2023 22:09

ResisterRex · 30/01/2023 22:03

Essential reading for those of us bereft of fucks:

4w.pub/a-message-to-those-recently-opining/

Couldn’t agree more. Thank you for the link.

ResisterRex · 30/01/2023 22:08

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 22:07

Women's anger often makes people feel uncomfortable.

We're not supposed to make a fuss.

M'dears, those days are done.

Women have been sidelined, impugned, maligned, mocked, belittled, insulted, threatened, abused, lied about, dismissed, sacked, attacked and ignored when raising these issues, for fucking YEARS.

We have written polite letters, asked polite questions, discussed it all nicely and we have worked and raged and researched and dug and stickered and ribboned and protested and networked and kept on going.

We've heard all the shit before. We're horrible old screeching pearl clutching prudish prurient vipers.

But now we're to be nice when we're talking about rapists in women's prisons?

I think we're bloody lovely, given the circumstances.

I agree. And we want our fucking stuff back!

MsFogi · 30/01/2023 22:08

Scrolled down from that twitter video to this one which is great: [https://twitter.com/shiny02/status/1619819508604235778]

DialSquare · 30/01/2023 22:08

ResisterRex · 30/01/2023 22:03

Essential reading for those of us bereft of fucks:

4w.pub/a-message-to-those-recently-opining/

Brilliant

GrabbyGabby · 30/01/2023 22:07

As i was saying, @LikeAnOldFriend one of my very forst posts on this board, probably 5 or 6 years ago now predicted EXACTLY how this would go, if trans rights were predicated on the evident falsehood that trans women are women. It was all too predictable that decisions made behind closed doors, woukd be blown apart as soon as some 6 foot bloke in a tutu gets done for rape.

This was never going to end well for trans people, but too few of them have spoken out against this insanity, and all too many of them have been very happy to throw women under a bus, so my sympathy is limited. I think first of the women forcibky incarcerated wuth men, the women who have been persecuted and lost their jobs, the women denied access to the services they need to help recover from the effects of violence by men.

So, come on then transwomen, show your allyship, stand with us to protect single sex spaces and to create third spaces where needed.

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 22:07

Women's anger often makes people feel uncomfortable.

We're not supposed to make a fuss.

M'dears, those days are done.

Women have been sidelined, impugned, maligned, mocked, belittled, insulted, threatened, abused, lied about, dismissed, sacked, attacked and ignored when raising these issues, for fucking YEARS.

We have written polite letters, asked polite questions, discussed it all nicely and we have worked and raged and researched and dug and stickered and ribboned and protested and networked and kept on going.

We've heard all the shit before. We're horrible old screeching pearl clutching prudish prurient vipers.

But now we're to be nice when we're talking about rapists in women's prisons?

I think we're bloody lovely, given the circumstances.

Emotionalsupportviper · 30/01/2023 22:07

PacificState · 30/01/2023 20:34

@LikeAnOldFriend I do think about that, for what it's worth. But (if I can put a challenge to you too) have you thought about what it's like for a woman to be called hateful, a bigot, a transphobe, a homophobe, a right-winger, a Karen, a bitch etc etc just for pointing out the utter madness of the policies that now even sturgeon herself cannot defend? It's been absolutely fucking horrible, and there's been years of it, millions of words, thousands of insults, thousands of threats.

All for pointing out that there are differences between men and women.

The glee you're seeing isn't glee at the discomfiture of trans people. It's glee at the downfall of the people who've ceaselessly whipped up abuse against us for years.

👏👏👏

None of us want anyone to suffer.

We don't want genuinely dysphoric people to suffer.

We don't want confused teenagers to suffer.

And we certainly don't want women and children - who are vulnerable purely because of their sex/ age to suffer either.

Letting women keep their rights doesn't take anything away from men.

Letting men have women's rights takes EVERYTHING away from women.