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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Nicola Sturgeon and the vindication of the Terfs' by James Kirkup

81 replies

Rightsraptor · 30/01/2023 16:41

Another excellent article by James K in The Spectator & MN moderators - please note I am citing JK's exact title here so I haven't used *

James has always written very clearly about this and has been bang on the money. He wrote nearly five years ago that accepting self-identified gender at face value could lead to policies and practices apt to be exploited by predatory men. And what did I read in the paper only today? That the Scottish Justice Minister Keith Brown (is that the name?) is still saying that they accept people's gender at face value.

But the real reason I wanted to start this thread was this, again James's words:
'... but the names of those women [who have been shouting long & loud about this] should be recorded as they are - sadly - vindicated . Nicola Williams of Fair Play for Women. Ruth Serwotka, Judith Green and many others from Woman's Place UK. Kate Coleman from Keep Prisons Single Sex. Journalists Janice Turner, Sarah Ditum, Helen Joyce, Helen Lewis and - all hail - Julie Bindel. MurrayBlackburnMackenzie. For Women Scotland. Some writer from south Edinburgh called Jo. Mumsnet.'

And amen to all of that. The best of women. 👏❤

OP posts:
PacificState · 30/01/2023 20:18

Helen Lewis has been incredibly influential on this topic at a level that really matters in policy formation - she's hugely well thought of by exactly the kind of people who work at the top of the Labour Party, the civil service, the BBC, national news orgs, etc. She's got a talent and a towering intellect that can't be denied, and her incisive but polite questioning is one - just one, mind - reason why UK cultural institutions didn't get completely captured.

She's pretty much said herself that her gender critical views (which were/are very moderate) meant she had to leave the New Statesman. Her event about lesbian labour MPs at labour conference a couple of years ago got boycotted and then cancelled because of it. Her voice got taken off a video game because of it. In every single interview and podcast I've heard with her she brings it up and states the case clearly and calmly.

She's done a lot. And yes I am a fan girl.

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 20:17

But that's twice I've seen 'vindicated' in headlines today. I like it and I want to see it written everywhere.

T shirts, maybe?

VINDICATED.

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 20:16

Maya Forstater has to be front and centre on that list. Her court cases have been absolutely pivotal in all of this.

Mollyollydolly · 30/01/2023 19:58

It's nice to see women recognised.

I understand why it makes people angry too that so many aren't on the list. It's just the suffragettes all over again isn't it, how long did it take for working class suffragettes to be recognised.

Not taking anything away from the women mentioned, the fact is that it was the groundswell of public opinion horrified that finally got this on the front page and yes, most of them are much more likely to listen to women like KJK.

And the over-riding thing that got it on the front page was politics, the section 35 and the fact it finally penetrated the bubble of a lot of male journalists who had to write about what they hadn't cared about or avoided for years.

It's all a bit bittersweet, but that's the reality.

Boiledbeetle · 30/01/2023 19:52

NecessaryScene · 30/01/2023 16:50

Mumnset

😡

Maybe he didn't want it to come up on any super advanced internet searches!

LizzieSiddal · 30/01/2023 19:45

He couldn’t possibly include everyone who’s been outspoken about this. It would fill most of the article!

LizzieSiddal · 30/01/2023 19:44

the Greeks told stories of Cassandra, fated to predict the future but not be believed. That story had to be about a woman, and it’s just been repeated, yet again, over prisons and self-ID.

This made me cry.

Hedjwitch · 30/01/2023 19:43

Sharron Davies on Twitter and so so many Scottish women who are part of Women Wont Wheesht, Scottish Suffragettes,For Women Scotland etc.

mrshoho · 30/01/2023 19:36

👏👏👏👏

What an achievement. I know the fight needs to continue but what an amazing turnaround.

Feraldogmum · 30/01/2023 19:26

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Theeyeballsinthesky · 30/01/2023 18:30

im just so grateful for all those women shouting about this years ago when the self ID juggernaut seemed unstoppable & so angry for all the needless suffering & damage that has been caused

KatMcBundleFace · 30/01/2023 18:28

We are all vindicated.

Thank you James

And well done all who put their necks on the line over this. We've all played our part to defend women's rights.

DuesToTheDirt · 30/01/2023 18:19

"That the Scottish Justice Minister Keith Brown (is that the name?) is still saying that they accept people's gender at face value."

We just need to do that literally and we'll be sorted. Man's face = man!

TheGreatATuin · 30/01/2023 18:13

Excellent article. I'm really pleased to see so much coverage, although of course, the spectator has been good on this for a long time.
Mean time, over at the Guardian... I imagine they're still working out how to do their reverse ferret as it'll need some complex choreography to work out the level of acrobatics needed to bring their years-long stance into line. I'm imagining Kath Viner and Owen Jones in 80s workout gear doing their warm ups.

PauliString · 30/01/2023 18:10

Inappropriate snurk at the typo 'sex offenders might be willing to disassemble'!

pattihews · 30/01/2023 18:05

He's included Ruth 'domestic zombie' Serwotka and left out Magdalen, Maya, Allison and KJK. And the LGB Alliance. Bigged up WPUK, the most divisive women's group that says you're not a feminist if you're not on the far left. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has no idea rather than assuming he knew and did it purposely. But Helen Lewis? If she's done or said anything much at all it's been so subtle and so 'I don't want to be associated with those second wavers' that no one except Kirkup appears to have noticed.

Whitefly · 30/01/2023 18:01

Thank you, all.

CupofTeaAndsomeToast · 30/01/2023 17:56

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

Tricyrtis2022 · 30/01/2023 17:55

Archive link for those without a sub: archive.is/sKT9M

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/01/2023 17:50

Newtonsnipple · 30/01/2023 17:43

Every single one of them helped to heave the spotlight to where it is today, pointing right at the absurdity women have been screming about for years.

They might all have their own ways of doing things and their own politics. But I refuse to believe a single one of them did more harm than simply ignoring the issue, keeping quiet or letting men/pedo-apologists/rapists into female safe spaces.

This!
Look where transactivists are now as a result of their single issue #nodbate, TWAW, "He's a woman if he says he is".

Unable to string a coherent sentence together. No nuance. No ability to understand alternative views. They're a joke. The only tactics they have are threats, intimidation and violence.

Newtonsnipple · 30/01/2023 17:43

Every single one of them helped to heave the spotlight to where it is today, pointing right at the absurdity women have been screming about for years.

They might all have their own ways of doing things and their own politics. But I refuse to believe a single one of them did more harm than simply ignoring the issue, keeping quiet or letting men/pedo-apologists/rapists into female safe spaces.

heathspeedwell · 30/01/2023 17:39

Thanks for the link!

MiladeeBeserko · 30/01/2023 17:37

There's a few of them that did more harm than good, especially the WPUK lot.

And Kellie Jay certainly deserves recognition.

Fuck only knows what Helen Lewis did.

RoyalCorgi · 30/01/2023 16:57

A link for those who'd like to read it:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeon-and-the-vindication-of-the-terfs/

NecessaryScene · 30/01/2023 16:50

Mumnset

😡

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