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'Nicola Sturgeon and the vindication of the Terfs' by James Kirkup

81 replies

Rightsraptor · 30/01/2023 16:41

Another excellent article by James K in The Spectator & MN moderators - please note I am citing JK's exact title here so I haven't used *

James has always written very clearly about this and has been bang on the money. He wrote nearly five years ago that accepting self-identified gender at face value could lead to policies and practices apt to be exploited by predatory men. And what did I read in the paper only today? That the Scottish Justice Minister Keith Brown (is that the name?) is still saying that they accept people's gender at face value.

But the real reason I wanted to start this thread was this, again James's words:
'... but the names of those women [who have been shouting long & loud about this] should be recorded as they are - sadly - vindicated . Nicola Williams of Fair Play for Women. Ruth Serwotka, Judith Green and many others from Woman's Place UK. Kate Coleman from Keep Prisons Single Sex. Journalists Janice Turner, Sarah Ditum, Helen Joyce, Helen Lewis and - all hail - Julie Bindel. MurrayBlackburnMackenzie. For Women Scotland. Some writer from south Edinburgh called Jo. Mumsnet.'

And amen to all of that. The best of women. 👏❤

OP posts:
roarfeckingroarr · 30/01/2023 21:59

Great article. Of course he couldn't name check everyone.

DworkinWasRight · 30/01/2023 21:18

There are a whole bunch of women he could have mentioned but didn’t. WPUK, however, did a lot of the groundwork in the early days when very few others were interested. In 2018 they had something like 18 public meetings around the country. I think along with Mumsnet, it was those meetings that helped mobilise the resistance and begin to shift public perception.

MiladeeBeserko · 30/01/2023 21:16

I've always liked her writing. But you do, as has been said many times, need to 'piss or get off the pot'.

No TWAW, no Trutrans.

Find your courage

PacificState · 30/01/2023 21:10

I am not Helen Lewis. Bloody wish I was, but I'm not. I just think she's excellent.

DomesticatedZombie · 30/01/2023 21:06

MiladeeBeserko · 30/01/2023 20:47

I want 'Domesticated Fucking Zombie' on a T shirt

Me, too.

pattihews · 30/01/2023 21:02

PacificState · 30/01/2023 20:18

Helen Lewis has been incredibly influential on this topic at a level that really matters in policy formation - she's hugely well thought of by exactly the kind of people who work at the top of the Labour Party, the civil service, the BBC, national news orgs, etc. She's got a talent and a towering intellect that can't be denied, and her incisive but polite questioning is one - just one, mind - reason why UK cultural institutions didn't get completely captured.

She's pretty much said herself that her gender critical views (which were/are very moderate) meant she had to leave the New Statesman. Her event about lesbian labour MPs at labour conference a couple of years ago got boycotted and then cancelled because of it. Her voice got taken off a video game because of it. In every single interview and podcast I've heard with her she brings it up and states the case clearly and calmly.

She's done a lot. And yes I am a fan girl.

Are you Helen Lewis? Because that's not the way it looks from the groundling position. I speak as a Radio 4 listener who's heard most of her work over the years and still couldn't tell you where she stands.

Johnduttonsbuttocks · 30/01/2023 21:00

🍷🍆😡

Best I could do.

LoobiJee · 30/01/2023 20:59

pattihews · 30/01/2023 18:05

He's included Ruth 'domestic zombie' Serwotka and left out Magdalen, Maya, Allison and KJK. And the LGB Alliance. Bigged up WPUK, the most divisive women's group that says you're not a feminist if you're not on the far left. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has no idea rather than assuming he knew and did it purposely. But Helen Lewis? If she's done or said anything much at all it's been so subtle and so 'I don't want to be associated with those second wavers' that no one except Kirkup appears to have noticed.

The journalists he mentions there are the same ones he listed in one of his early articles on the subject, where he named the women he’d learned from on this issue. In the previous article he mention the paper which Helen Lewis had written for on this.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/01/2023 20:55

Linda Bellos too, while we're name dropping

Boiledbeetle · 30/01/2023 20:55

Rightsraptor · 30/01/2023 20:53

It took me a while to work out who 'some writer from South Edinburgh called Jo' was.

It's JK Rowling everybody!!!

The artwork for the VINDICATED t shirt - can the 'vin' be a glass of 🍷?

But...dic is next

Original poster
Rightsraptor · 30/01/2023 20:53

It took me a while to work out who 'some writer from South Edinburgh called Jo' was.

It's JK Rowling everybody!!!

The artwork for the VINDICATED t shirt - can the 'vin' be a glass of 🍷?

OP posts:
NeedToKnow101 · 30/01/2023 20:51

And yes to Martina Navratilova and Sharron Davies too. Tireless and relentless. Allison Bailey, Keira Bell, Helen Joyce, Maya Forstater absolutely amazing, Racquel Rosario Sanchez, Kellie Jay Keen, Venice Allan, Aja. And the Mumsnet massive ❤️

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/01/2023 20:48

MiladeeBeserko · 30/01/2023 20:47

I want 'Domesticated Fucking Zombie' on a T shirt

yeah, I do try to be gracious, but Ruth Serwotka can fucking do one

MiladeeBeserko · 30/01/2023 20:47

I want 'Domesticated Fucking Zombie' on a T shirt

NeedToKnow101 · 30/01/2023 20:45

TheGreatATuin · 30/01/2023 18:13

Excellent article. I'm really pleased to see so much coverage, although of course, the spectator has been good on this for a long time.
Mean time, over at the Guardian... I imagine they're still working out how to do their reverse ferret as it'll need some complex choreography to work out the level of acrobatics needed to bring their years-long stance into line. I'm imagining Kath Viner and Owen Jones in 80s workout gear doing their warm ups.

🤣🤣🤣

Johnduttonsbuttocks · 30/01/2023 20:43

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 20:20

Also:

I WANT THIS ON A T SHIRT

littlbrowndog · 30/01/2023 20:41

pattihews · 30/01/2023 18:05

He's included Ruth 'domestic zombie' Serwotka and left out Magdalen, Maya, Allison and KJK. And the LGB Alliance. Bigged up WPUK, the most divisive women's group that says you're not a feminist if you're not on the far left. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has no idea rather than assuming he knew and did it purposely. But Helen Lewis? If she's done or said anything much at all it's been so subtle and so 'I don't want to be associated with those second wavers' that no one except Kirkup appears to have noticed.

Agree. Never mentioned the Scottish women.

Boiledbeetle · 30/01/2023 20:36

Yeah someone else will need to do the artwork!

Boiledbeetle · 30/01/2023 20:36

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 20:17

But that's twice I've seen 'vindicated' in headlines today. I like it and I want to see it written everywhere.

T shirts, maybe?

VINDICATED.

I'm shit at designs

'Nicola Sturgeon and the vindication of the Terfs' by James Kirkup
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/01/2023 20:31

vindicated

I like the sound of that

I've got a lot of time for James Kirkup. He's been one of the few men speaking out on this for a long time. I wouldn't have picked the same list, but I'm not the one stating my opinions in my own name, so he can do what he likes

I'd prefer it if he spelt Mumsnet correctly though

inventinglouise · 30/01/2023 20:28

EpicChaos · 30/01/2023 20:22

And no mention of JK Rowling! She has been an absolute diamond on this subject! ( not just because she's a pretty, shiny thing, though she has shone brilliantly but also with the hardness and resilliance, as per Moh's! )
KJK should have had a mention too, imo, as should others, that posters have already mentioned so far on this thread and no doubt, those names yet to come.

If we're counting non Brits, a shout out for Martina Navratilova is a must, imo

"Some writer from south Edinburgh called Jo."

mrshoho · 30/01/2023 20:28

Epic, I think JKR was the 'some writer from Edinburgh' 😁

EpicChaos · 30/01/2023 20:22

And no mention of JK Rowling! She has been an absolute diamond on this subject! ( not just because she's a pretty, shiny thing, though she has shone brilliantly but also with the hardness and resilliance, as per Moh's! )
KJK should have had a mention too, imo, as should others, that posters have already mentioned so far on this thread and no doubt, those names yet to come.

If we're counting non Brits, a shout out for Martina Navratilova is a must, imo

mrshoho · 30/01/2023 20:21

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 20:20

Also:

😁😆😬

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 20:20

Also:

'Nicola Sturgeon and the vindication of the Terfs' by James Kirkup
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