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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pronouns, just stop it

70 replies

Birdsweepsin · 30/01/2023 10:01

www.waterperryoperafestival.co.uk/2023festivalprogramme.html#carmen

Seriously? Waterperry you are an Opera company. Soprano, Mezzo, Countertenor... we don't need pronouns.

And yet making so much of the pronouns. I'm sorry, I know you're just Being Kind and all, but you have just lost me as a customer. Peter Rabbit and Revolting Rhymes are shows for small children! I so want to support stuff like this but the pronouns just flags 'utterly captured'.

Pronouns, just stop it
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NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 30/01/2023 17:38

She/they means the actor wants to the grammatical patterns she/her/hers and they/them/theirs to be used. Often in alternation.

See image modelling usage. If you are using a screenreader, this image says

If someone tells you that they take more than one pronouns, which should you do?

Make your best effort to use the different sets they've shared. For example, if someone uses she/they pronouns...

Then there is an image of a man with a speech bubble. The words in the bubble say, I was talking to her the other day. They told me...

Pronouns, just stop it
TangledWebOfDeception · 30/01/2023 17:20

Yes everyone should join as a matter of course. Together we are very strong.

JKRfan · 30/01/2023 17:07

TangledWebOfDeception · 30/01/2023 12:36

Yes it does do that to an extent. But I mean we need to create an even bigger one, with bigger teeth. Or else we all need to join the FSU.

I think that is what I was suggesting whether you are likely to need any protection or not. It is worth joining as politicians and institutions are so 'captured'. You will wait a long time for any new union to spring up.

OttersMayHaveShiftedInTransit · 30/01/2023 17:00

I am intrigued by she/they though in this picture How does that work, I presume she identifies as she so how does they come in?
I do wonder if some combinations are a subtle push back, as in if I have to give something I'm going to give something nonsensical.

FrancescaContini · 30/01/2023 16:38

WolverineBlueyy · 30/01/2023 10:34

As a theatre lover, I feel your pain.

OMG
I just couldn’t give money to these people

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/01/2023 16:35

Never mind, see others have already asked the same!

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/01/2023 16:34

WolverineBlueyy · 30/01/2023 10:34

As a theatre lover, I feel your pain.

I can't get worked up about pronouns, either give them or don't.
I am intrigued by she/they though in this picture How does that work, I presume she identifies as she so how does they come in?
Genuine question if anyone is able to answer without being sarky or just grumbling bout load of bollocks as blah blah 😁

WhichPage · 30/01/2023 14:47

pppft

you have to listen though walls anyway to know if your pronouns of the day are being adhered
to

given it’s impolite/embarrassing to get someone pronouns wrong it’s is imv impolite and embarrassing to set about tripping people up by trying to change yours, especially given you shouldn’t even really hear them in use!

Chersfrozenface · 30/01/2023 14:09

"she / they", different genders or lack thereof on different days? Or depending on whether there's an R in the month?

It couldn't possibly be so as to get roles labelled 'female' and also roles labelled 'non-binary', no way.

electricmoccasins · 30/01/2023 14:00

GiantKitten · 30/01/2023 12:16

There is just the one “she/they” though.
That’s probably why.
That “they” had to be there so they all did it.

Surely it would be ‘she/them’ to fit in grammatically with the others.

What I don’t get is if you’re happy with ‘she’, what’s wrong with ‘her’?

TangledWebOfDeception · 30/01/2023 12:36

JKRfan · 30/01/2023 11:56

The Free Speech Union is beginning to fulfil this role since mainstream Trade Unions seem to have abdicated their responsibility to their paid-up members. Mainstream unions are failing to represent their paid up members if they happen not to accept the identity politics mantras. Imagine your own Trade Union calling you 'transphobic' when you are sacked for saying biology is real.

Yes it does do that to an extent. But I mean we need to create an even bigger one, with bigger teeth. Or else we all need to join the FSU.

Grimchmas · 30/01/2023 12:29

It's not just for that one person, it's mainly virtue signalling. Theatre is highly captured, and huge pressure is delivered from within the industry, from other highly captured "Folx".

The facts that the trans people I know in the industry want the ground to swallow them whole when pronouns are insisted upon, and that pointing out who is a women has been proven to make others treat them less favourably are irrelevant. It's posturing and BEEING SEEN to be woke. And people who raise even the slightest squeak of objection are labelled trouble and transphobic in an instant - which given theatre's notorious lack of job stability, is a real problem.

MarshaBradyo · 30/01/2023 12:18

How does she / they work?

She was good in the play

Pass it to they

How?

GiantKitten · 30/01/2023 12:16

BellePeppa · 30/01/2023 12:04

So on the Comedy of Errors poster everyone is the pronoun you’d expect them to be, ie women are her/she, men are he/him. When are any of the people on the posters expecting the audience to be using these or any other pronouns at them anyway and why would they care. I expect they had no choice but to put the pronouns on there by their bosses but for what bloody point?

There is just the one “she/they” though.
That’s probably why.
That “they” had to be there so they all did it.

BellePeppa · 30/01/2023 12:04

So on the Comedy of Errors poster everyone is the pronoun you’d expect them to be, ie women are her/she, men are he/him. When are any of the people on the posters expecting the audience to be using these or any other pronouns at them anyway and why would they care. I expect they had no choice but to put the pronouns on there by their bosses but for what bloody point?

JKRfan · 30/01/2023 11:56

TangledWebOfDeception · 30/01/2023 11:34

The next big campaign to fight this lunacy needs to be protection of employment and an end to the oppressive idea that employers can dictate or compel your politics and/or punish lack of engagement with politics at work.

I'd like to see formation of a new, cross-section Employment Rights Union whose main focus is on the right to peaceful employment regardless of what mantras you do not wish to spout/what opinions you hold and voice.

The Free Speech Union is beginning to fulfil this role since mainstream Trade Unions seem to have abdicated their responsibility to their paid-up members. Mainstream unions are failing to represent their paid up members if they happen not to accept the identity politics mantras. Imagine your own Trade Union calling you 'transphobic' when you are sacked for saying biology is real.

MarshaBradyo · 30/01/2023 11:36

IcakethereforeIam · 30/01/2023 10:36

A Comedy of he/hers.

My coat's around somewhere....

haha good one

TangledWebOfDeception · 30/01/2023 11:34

The next big campaign to fight this lunacy needs to be protection of employment and an end to the oppressive idea that employers can dictate or compel your politics and/or punish lack of engagement with politics at work.

I'd like to see formation of a new, cross-section Employment Rights Union whose main focus is on the right to peaceful employment regardless of what mantras you do not wish to spout/what opinions you hold and voice.

SweetSenorita · 30/01/2023 11:18

TangledWebOfDeception · 30/01/2023 11:05

(I know, I know - much easier said than done, sadly)

You're absolutely right. Most people need their jobs to put food on the table for their families.

I kinda need my job too (I do love it) but (a) I'm getting towards retirement age (could draw my occupational pensions if I wished), (b) my sector is so desperately short of workers that anyone self-identifying as an accountant will get a job and (c) my organisation is haemorrhaging staff at the minute; they don't like me but they need to put with me for a while.

Self-ID and pronouns came up recently over lunch. Some raved about how progressive it was, while some remained quiet – see my opening sentence. And I said: "Fuck that, it's all a load of bollocks" and went to the bar to get another drink.

As I said, they'd like to offload me – and they will eventually. But for now, I stand firm. I'll do what I can, when I can.

LizzieSiddal · 30/01/2023 11:17

Why do they think we care?!

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 30/01/2023 11:13

vera99 · 30/01/2023 11:02

Opera and theatre is a huge gay enclave I'm afraid you're on a losing wicket trying to change that. Female roles were played by boys in Shakespeare's time how weird would that have been.

theconversation.com/why-werent-women-allowed-to-act-in-shakespeares-plays-177804

Have they stopped teaching this in Year 9 then? You sound very surprised. It's not really weird. It's a product of a patriarchal society. What does it have to do with the topic at hand?

PSNonsense · 30/01/2023 11:11

TangledWebOfDeception · 30/01/2023 11:04

People are going to have to rise up and say FUCK THIS SHIT at some point.

Seriously, you spend the vast majority of your life at work, stop playing along with toxic crap that demands you lie to yourself and to others! It isn't worth it!!

Yes!

I've just read that Richard Madeley apologised for calling Sam Smith 'he'. Is IS a he! No matter how he 'identifies' or what stereotypes he rejects.

It's gaslighting, pure and simple gaslighting.

Sam Smith is a male.
Eddie Izzard is a male.
Emma Corrin is a female.

SweetSenorita · 30/01/2023 11:09

IcakethereforeIam · 30/01/2023 10:36

A Comedy of he/hers.

My coat's around somewhere....

Love it 😘

WednesdaysNameIsFullOfWoe · 30/01/2023 11:09

TangledWebOfDeception · 30/01/2023 11:04

People are going to have to rise up and say FUCK THIS SHIT at some point.

Seriously, you spend the vast majority of your life at work, stop playing along with toxic crap that demands you lie to yourself and to others! It isn't worth it!!

Oh, I’m long past that. No trans at work, none in my social group, none that I need to interact with.

Birdsweepsin · 30/01/2023 11:08

IcakethereforeIam · 30/01/2023 10:36

A Comedy of he/hers.

My coat's around somewhere....

Just doesn't get better than this. Thanks for the much needed laugh!

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