Man/Woman, male/female, male bodied/female bodied

Male & female include members of those sex classes across all species as well as ages.

My cat is female but not a woman.

My granddaughters are female. One is a woman, one is a child.

(not all, of course)
Men who identify as their fantasy of what a woman is.
Men who fantasise about themselves dressed up as a woman.
Men completely absorbed in their fantasy of living out their misogynistic and fetishized stereotyped vision of what it is to be a woman

Always depends on the context, but terms like male and female include all age groups, whereas woman is Adult Human Female.

So when talking about trans issues in schools man and woman may not be appropriate when you are talking about boys and girls. Man would accurately describe an adult male and could make situations like understanding that a male teacher (who says he is trans) is going into the female changing rooms, "man in girl's changing rooms" really brings the message home.

I’ve heard of “Gennies” - genetic women. It also means a female donkey.

Showing my age a bit here, I suspect.

Back in the TV/TS days the trans in-group slang for women was Argie (Real Girl) or GiGi (Genetic Girl).

Both are pretty revolting but I much prefer them to ‘cis’, because while the ‘girl’ bit is silly and infantilising when applied to adults, at least ‘real’ and ‘genetic’ were being used factually, rather than being up guff, like ‘cis’.

And no one was trying to force team women into one collapsed category that included men who said they were women.

Indeed. When ‘trans’ is used within this ideological framework, it basically means “not a” or “not”.

So a “trans woman” is a “not a woman” and “trans women” are “not women”.

Its a pointless thing to do, to describe a person or a thing by what they are not, since it gives no meaningful information about them or it.

The previous usage, of ‘transvestite’ or transsexual’ did sort of describe something- a person doing a thing. You used to be able to say “that man is a transvestite” or partway down the rabbit hole “that man is a transsexual”, but by the current ideology tv/ts is now deemed offensive apparently.

And as you say - “transgender” has no stable meaning whatsoever.

I also try never to use the word "trans" because it means either
1, a process of transitioning (to or from what? - problematic) rather than a state of being
OR
2, is an abbreviation of "transgender" which has no stable meaning and is just a way of forced-teaming groups who have little in common.

Men, or women. Or men who think they are women or pretend to be women. I am not of the view that misdescribing reality is "kind". I think it is the opposite for all involved. Especially children and young people.

What words do you use to describe men and women, especially if they identify as trans?

Men, or women 🤷‍♀️

Men.
Men who claim to be trans - to distinguish them from men who don’t claim to be that.

I have no way of knowing whether a man who identifies as a woman sincerely & wrongly believes that’s what he is, or just wants me to believe he believes he is.

I can have my suspicions. I suspect Jazz Jennings is the first, and Adam “Isla” the rapist is the second. But I don’t know.

All I know is that they’re making that claim and are trying to place an obligation on me to act as if I agreed with it.

It's important to get it right, whatever term you use, and to be clear what other people understand by it.
People who haven't been paying attention sometimes assume that a 'trans woman' is a woman who identifies as a man. They hear the term 'woman' and that seems to establish the basis with 'trans' as a modifier. Cue all kinds of misunderstanding. Which of course was the intention all along.

You can be sure that whatever terms we use will sooner or later either be colonised or outlawed.

I know someone who uses the terms 'small gamete person' and 'large gamete person' but that only works for people with a basic knowledge of biology and a sense of irony.

True enough!

But always, they are men.

Men who want to be women, or women who want to be men would be much more accurate. IMO.

But then again, they don’t really want to be women do they? The mental load, the donkey work, the low social status, being judged for everything. It’s the fantasy of being a woman they want.

So men who say they are women is more accurate than that.

I usually say male/female bodied because my arguments are based on the undeniable historic disempowerment of the female-bodied and its long echo still built into our culture, and so are valid even if you believe trans women are women.

I'm not going to leave a loophole for someone to avoid engaging with the substance of my arguments by deploying a bad faith tactical buttergasp and an attack of the misgender conniptions.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4727490-language-bank

We’ve been starting to puzzle some of this through on the thread linked above.

’Men who say they are women’ seems to be a favourite at the moment (because we do sometimes need a way to differentiate between standard men and men who are entitled enough to think the rules about single sex spaces do not apply to them.

’Men who have altered their appearance with surgery and hormones’ is a useful way to describe a subset of the bigger group ‘men who say they are women’.

Men who want to be women, or women who want to be men would be much more accurate. IMO.

Men who think they are women and women who think they are men.

Men and women for those of us who are quite sure of what we are.

Trans Identified Male (TIM)
Trans Identified Female (TIF)

Ugh Twitter.

We’ve spent enough time playing pretzel word games.

I’m done with it. I simply won’t stand for it. I’m not frightened, not one bit, to state the truth.

A man is male, and will always be male. Ergo, he will always be a man in ways that very much matter.

People can scream, shout and threaten as much as they want. Tough.

We had to say male bodied and female bodied for a long time on here otherwise we’d be censored/banned.

I refuse to play along with the shit show/travesty now and just state actual fact: there are women (female) and men (male) and that is that.

Yes. I think enough people are able to see sense now, we may as well leave the brainwashed mugs to their own stupidity.