Andrew Burns AKA Tiffany Scott

erm

what do you think the GRR was all about?

I don't know that tbf, I don't know much about NS. Surely no woman is "happily sending rapists off to women's prisons" that sounds like hyperbole.

FWIW and this is probably not the thread for it, your middle paragraphs do sum up my position on the gender ideology debate. I will have to remain gender critical due to not only the damage to women not doing so does, but also because there is no such thing as a just and fair system really, that can arbitrate who is "trans enough" to be accepted into single sex spaces and who isn't.

I will admit I oscillate on this point quite a lot. Sometimes I believe that there are cases in which people are so trans that it no longer makes sense to consign them to single sex spaces designed for the opposite sex. But ultimately, in settings where women are genuinely in vulnerable positions in that same sex environment, I do come down on the GC side.

What I do have a problem with is how hard it is to separate this view with the transphobia of trans people as an entire demographic that goes with it. Like on MN where people claim that they're not transphobic, only care about the appropriation of womens' rights and spaces, but then denigrate trans people, imply and discuss how it's solely a sexual fetish, disparage the very idea of using preferred pronouns etc. I fail to see how any of that behaviour is relevant to upholding the rights of women and is not just hatred of trans people, or at the very least an indifference to their wants and needs as a group.

I can acknowledge that TRA and #nodebate has perhaps contributed to a perceived need to be combative and it seems that many at least on here, have developed an all or nothing attitude. I also understand how the phrase "trans women are women" has become detrimental to the trans rights cause because it's easy to interpret that as "trans women are biological women". I never interpreted the phrase like that but it seems I'm in the minority there and even public authorities talk about TWAW like it means that.

I genuinely don't understand what is so hard about saying that sex matters and that some spaces are single sex for a specific reason and that you as someone born male don't have the lived experience needed to decide that that is irrelevant, but also that we can respect that trans identity is real and valid and that most parts of every day life are not segregated by need for single sex spaces and therefore there is no problem with accepting peoples' gender identity in society.

People on here always say that they do think that and they don't care that people identify as trans but then lose their minds at the idea of using pronouns etc. How can one fight the legitimate fight for women's rights when one is engaging in activity which rightly lands them labelled as transphobic? If that is your genuine intention and you genuinely aren't transphobic, does it not bother you that you might be unintentionally acting in such a way?

heavens to murgatroyd

if you think NS gives one shiny shit about the safety of women in prison I have a lovely bridge I'd like to sell you

if this hadn't hit the press she'd still be cheerfully sending rapists off to shower with the women

My apologies, I didn't actually allude to what NS said that I thought was right and fair, so that is my bad.

So sorry I'm kind of tired so I can't find it verbatim but she is quoted in the BBC article on this matter as saying her position on these matters is to ensure the safety of women in these situations without demonising trans people.

That is 100% my position and what I believe is right and fair.

And have now just noticed the flounder joke! I was still on women with balls in my head.

To be fair it is a ball ache for her

Indeed @TheClogLady

Exactly! No need to become British through any kind of legal process, do you like fish and chips and complaining about the weather? Great! You may as well just go ahead and self identify as British!
No one is allowed to challenge your inner sense of Britishness, and of course you can compete for Team GB at the Olympics - now which nation’s football team do you like the look of?

In other news, Nicola is now getting a hard time from Channel 4 too - not as funny as ITN but she’s asked directly about Katie Dolatowski.

twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1620127849595166726/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1620127849595166726&currentTweetUser=Channel4News

(Unintentional pun there!)

I'm having a ball watching Sturgeon flounder.

I'm desperate for this whole shitshow to finally come undone.

Anyone who thinks getting a GRC is hard should have a go at bringing a foreign born partner to settle in the UK via the Fiancé/Spouse Visa > Indefinite Leave to Remain > Citizenship route.

Since a fundamental, factual change regarding sex is allowed on a Birth Certificate which is a legal document meant to be a true record of fact, why can't we just simplify the above process and allow people to change their Place of Birth on their Birth Certificate, all they need to claim is that they have always felt truly British (or any other nationality), would streamline the process and make thing so much easier, cheaper, etc., I mean why on earth not?

I find it funny to compare it with the 3 months no proof self ID and the violent men in women's prison.

I had to go to the assessment centre as they were afraid of the woman in a wheelchair who needs a stairlift and bed hoist because I said I sometimes got angry. So despite a doctor's letter saying I needed a home assessment they claimed they were to afraid to come to the house. Because I shout and swear occasionally.

Plus I laugh now at the memory of my sister tipping me into the snow right by the main door!

Just so you all know I’m not making up the stuff about marrying a picture of the queen.

Citizenship ceremonies are truly batshit but also quite moving - it’s nice to see old fusty British traditions juxtaposed with literal brand new British Citizens.

All pics random from Google images.

Anyway, back on topic: Has Nicola resigned yet?

Maybe we should start deliberately referring to the GRR as the GRRrrrrr?

Anyone who thinks getting a GRC is hard should have a go at bringing a foreign born partner to settle in the UK via the Fiancé/Spouse Visa > Indefinite Leave to Remain > Citizenship route.

It’s a lot more complicated than a deed poll, 8 bank statements or bills and two doctors sign offs. Takes far more than two years and costs a hell of a lot more than a fiver too.
You even have to pledge allegiance to the monarch in a registry office.
It’s as if you are marrying a man from the Home Office, the town mayor and a photo of The Queen.

(King now, obvs)

PIP is also a bloody nightmare and usually has to be done repeatedly every few years or so (despite autism not going anywhere or limbs refusing to grow back).

Imagine if you had to renew a GRC every year or so (and it got taken back if you’d committed an offence involving your genitals)!

Sorry, but unsurprised to hear that Boiled

The dehumanisation of people who are disabled is so fucking disgusting and all for a pittance and very begrudging help.

And those who claim the application for a GRC is so hard and so dehumanising - they can get in the fucking bin.

I love how every time I type GRR my tablet changes it to Grrrrrr. Must know how i feel

Which is a rather different opinion than the one she held on 22/12/22 when she turned and applauded a load of men, one who likes knives and axes and threatening women, in the viewing area of the Scottish parliament after the Grrrrrr Bill passed

That is the best thing ever. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 transwomen are women

but not all of them 🤣🤣🤣

...do you know, that's one of the most acute and sensible precis of the situation I've ever read.

@GailBlancheViola my last PIP form contained nearly 200 pages. so many consultants letters, test results etc. It Involved a trip out in 6 inches of snow with my sister trying to push the wheelchair through uncleared snow at the entrance to the assessment centre.

And yet this idiocy requires sweet FA!

NS who said that women's concerns 'weren't valid' when they, as has been made abundantly clear over the last week or so, were entirely valid? For years, several organisations have been actively pointing out the issues with a lobby group who are aggressively pushing for self ID being allowed to dictate prison policy. Such organisations were roundly ignored by the Scottish Government due to the SG's unhinged adherence to this ideology. The chickens have now come home to roost.

I used to be a big fan of NS. Now I don't trust a single word which comes out her mouth.

This whole mess exists because of this fantasy that some males have an inner mental thingyness that makes them "actually" women so the right place for them is with other women. So now we have the cost and worry, case by case, on how we square the circle of fitting male people into structures that were never intended to be mixed sex, and how we judge just who has the right inner thingyness to qualify, and who is genuine but deluded, and who is just faking. (And forgive me if I don't think "wait till he rapes someone" is the best way of doing that.)

Plus under the GRR Bill that Scotland tried to push through, there is NO test for this inner mental thingyness, no criteria to meet for this thingyness, no medical or psychological tests, nothing, no tests at all it is merely taken on the say so of the person saying it. Therefore, and I know it is a bit much to expect politicians to be intelligent but this is a level of idiocy beyond compare, how can anyone make a false declaration, it's not possible under the anyone is who they say they are, acceptance without exception mantra which Dear Leader Nicola parrots. The magic piece of paper is given on the say so of the person, they don't even have to change anything about themselves at all and once in possession of the magic piece of paper they are to be treated for all intents as purposes as they identify.

No hoops to jump through to make such a fundamental change and yet disabled people have to go through the absolute wringer to prove they are disabled enough to receive the most paltry of help.

This Ideology Agenda is a fucking disgrace.

@CandlelightGlow

What NS has said is right and fair.

Fair to who? The idea that males could ever belong in the female estate, that there is ever a context where that is reasonable and acceptable, is predicted entirely on meeting the male need.

This whole mess exists because of this fantasy that some males have an inner mental thingyness that makes them "actually" women so the right place for them is with other women. So now we have the cost and worry, case by case, on how we square the circle of fitting male people into structures that were never intended to be mixed sex, and how we judge just who has the right inner thingyness to qualify, and who is genuine but deluded, and who is just faking. (And forgive me if I don't think "wait till he rapes someone" is the best way of doing that.)

But the thing is, even if this thingyness in truth exists, even there is a root cause, a difference in these men which makes them genuinely different to other males, the jump that this "thingyness" is actually womanhood, and it is this, not the undeniable and inescapable fact of our bodies, that determines the challenges female people face is ludicrous. Laughably inane.

The fantasy that these men could ever be more appropriately housed as women simply does not stand even the smallest of critical thought. But take away that fantasy, and why would anyone ever even need to find a "fair" way to accommodate men in female-only spaces in the first place?

That would seem to be the case.

After a woman has been injured or worse, then I would assume they'd wipe her blood off the risk assessment and give it a little bit of a rethink.

In bloody clown world!