Page 10 | Andrew Burns AKA Tiffany Scott

Signalbox · 2023-01-28T11:30:51+00:00

Wtf is going on? Another violent man being moved to a women's prison in Scotland. A man so violent they can't even take him to court and NHS staff refuse to treat him. [[https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/new-trans-prisoner-storm-looms-29069314]]

Original poster

Signalbox · 29/01/2023 10:32

Very brave of Amanda to go on the record...

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/ex-prisoner-shaking-fear-sharing-29075541?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

She said: “My whole time in prison on constant high alert, my nerves were frazzled with fear.

“These incredibly violent men were walking around the communal shower area naked and sometimes clearly aroused. Myself and other women were in cubicles with only a curtain to protect us.

“I was shaking with fear. In the end I went to the prison clinic and had a coil fitted because I believed I could be raped at any time. I didn’t want one, I felt forced to do it.

“There was around 40 prisoners and two of them were trans. Neither appeared to be women. They dressed as men, they didn’t wear makeup, they were not so far as I know on any hormone drugs, they sounded like men.

“One of them was a domestic abuser who was over six feet tall and extremely threatening looking, the other was serving time for murder.

“All of the women who were forced to be in that prison with these people were vulnerable in different ways, many of them had been the victims of male violence, irrespective of their own offending.

“It is utterly outrageous, evil even, that we were put in a position of having to live in fear of being sexually attacked every day.

“I simply do not accept that these two prisoners were women, they were dangerous violent men who could at any point have used their strength to overpower one of the women.”

Amanda, from Inverkip in Inverclyde, has spoken out in the wake of fury at transgender double rapist Isla Bryson being placed inside a women’s prison.

OP posts:

Original poster

Signalbox · 29/01/2023 10:19

I've said I a fully aware that my conclusions some some spaces need to be sex segregated and not freely integrated with self ID transwomen is transphobic, but is what I believe regardless.

Why do you think this is transphobic? Apart from yourself and the lady who would rather do time with Tiffany than with a woman who thinks biological sex is real, I doubt anyone else thinks this is a transphobic position. So why are you judging yourself (and others) to be transphobic when you’ve probably got a perfectly good reason to think that spaces need to be sex segregated (and it’s not because you hate trans people)? Other women on here also have good reasons for not wanting to use the word “cis” and it’s not because they hate trans people but because they disagree with an particular ideological position.

OP posts:

OldCrone · 29/01/2023 10:18

For the record, I agree with whoever said the individual in question should be in a secure unit; these however are often mixed sex, but I assume you're OK with mentally ill violent men being around mentally ill violent women since I've never heard any complaints about that.

I'm surprised that you've missed all the threads where that has been discussed @Idwtlotpam. Here are a couple of them. It's been discussed in a lot of other threads as well.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3789095-Over-1-000-sexual-assaults-in-mixed-sex-mental-health-wards

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4065882-Require-the-NHS-to-provide-single-sex-psychiatric-wards-including-intake-wards

OldCrone · 29/01/2023 10:05

Waitwhat23 · 29/01/2023 08:56

From an article from 2017 -

'Scott is one of only some 100 offenders in Scotland subject to an Order for Lifelong Restriction (OLR), meaning she will only be released when she is no longer considered an "unmanageable risk to public safety".

She has a string of conviction for crimes including assaults, vandalism and resisting arrests.

In 2010, she assaulted a nurse when he escaped a hospital in Crewe, Cheshire.

Four years ago, she also admitted stalking a 13-year-old girl by sending her letters from her cell at Polmont Prison, near Falkirk.

She was sentenced to 14 months and given her OLR at the High Court in Glasgow.'

Show quote history

This is the earliest report I can find on this individual. From 2010 when he was 19.

web.archive.org/web/20170928152741/www.crewechronicle.co.uk/news/local-news/escaped-fugitive-pelted-cars-leighton-5611816

Burns has a string of previous convictions for vandalism, assaults and resisting arrest.

Gareth Roberts, defending, said his client is ‘a troubled young man’ who appears to suffer from psychosis and has difficulty controlling his rages.

Burns was sentenced to 16 months at a young offenders’ institution, less 123 days served on remand.

^^

CandlelightGlow · 29/01/2023 09:59

I've come to the conclusion you just can't argue with stupid

I wish I would hurry up and get to this conclusion too 😂

mrshoho · 29/01/2023 09:47

I've come to the conclusion you just can't argue with stupid. I feel we've been here before and lots of circles went round and round so I'll say no more.

CandlelightGlow · 29/01/2023 09:34

I don't really see what's so hypocritical - I haven't said the transphobic stuff I say isn't transphobia and the transphobic stuff you say is; that's what hypocrisy is.

I've said I a fully aware that my conclusions some some spaces need to be sex segregated and not freely integrated with self ID transwomen is transphobic, but is what I believe regardless. Exactly how is that "picking and choosing" what is transphobic?

Some people also go further though and also hold more views that are considered transphobic that I definitely wouldn't support - that's my point?

Original poster

Signalbox · 29/01/2023 09:29

But you are slagging us off as "transphobic," whilst showing "transphobia" yourself; it's hypocritical on your part, isn't it?

It’s bizarre. Somebody who hasn’t yet come to terms with being on the wrong side of history.

OP posts:

Waitwhat23 · 29/01/2023 09:28

An example of the effects of 'case by case' on women in prison -

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/ex-prisoner-shaking-fear-sharing-29075541#

Original poster

Signalbox · 29/01/2023 09:26

CandlelightGlow · 29/01/2023 01:20

Nahhh I'm definitely not as trans phobic as lots on here. I've got no problems with using pronouns, referring to myself as a cis woman, and trans people being allowed to use public toilets that match their assigned gender etc.

As much as people always say on here "I'm not transphobic I just believe in single sex spaces" those people in the same breath also say that you can't call trans women women and you can't even say trans and cis women (which by default means you have to say trans women and women, so clearly saying you don't think trans women are women even in the social constructy way and not the cunty way)

Show quote history

Lol you think you get to pick and choose what is and what isn’t transphobic and have the nerve to call others transphobic.

You’ve just “dead named” a transwoman and stated you don’t think he should be imprisoned with women. You clearly don’t think he is a woman or genuinely trans (because if you did you wouldn’t have used his “deadname”) so presumably you must also have doubts about the system of self ID. Do you really think you can identify out of being a transphobe just because you are prepared to use the “correct pronouns” for non-violent trans?

OP posts:

SinnerBoy · 29/01/2023 09:23

CandlelightGlow · Today 09:03

Yeah I'm fully aware that plenty of people will find my views transphobic - I've openly discussed this on other threads, it's not some kind of surprise or gotcha.

But you are slagging us off as "transphobic," whilst showing "transphobia" yourself; it's hypocritical on your part, isn't it?

SinnerBoy · 29/01/2023 09:22

Boiledbeetle · Today 03:19

In English... Unfortunately whilst we support trans people to have equality in law we do not support that at the price of loss of safety to us and undermining the safeguarding of children.

I think that that is the view held by most of us.

FactsAreNotMean · 29/01/2023 09:06

This article is quite the read about this individual - it's not recent but describes some of the many crimes which they've committed while in prison

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/1492364/transgender-prisoner-tiffany-scott-andrew-burns-dangerous-sheriff/

CandlelightGlow · 29/01/2023 09:03

Waitwhat23 · 29/01/2023 08:36

Strange then, than in deadnaming the rapist, you have seemingly been deeply transphobic, due to Pink News - www.thepinknews.com/2022/10/17/suella-braverman-attacks-police-trans-people-hate-crimes/

Refusing to refer to myself by the made up nonsense term of 'cis' isn't yet a hate crime (though I'm sure there will be a push to make it so).

And you yourself have said that this rapist shouldn't be in the female prison estate so, you're declaring that it isn't TWAW in every circumstance...which by the standards of those who spout TWAW is deeply transphobic.

Tut tut.

Oh, and the whole 'case by case' thing has lead to the following being incarcerated (or demanding to be moved) in the female estate -

Double rapist.
2 rapists who are demanding to be moved into women's prison
Murderer who identifies as a baby. In a prison with a mother and baby unit.
Murderer who 'had sex' with female inmates.
Paedophile housed in a women's prison with a mother and baby unit who was moved into a female prison after attacking another male in a male prison.

Show quote history

Yeah I'm fully aware that plenty of people will find my views transphobic - I've openly discussed this on other threads, it's not some kind of surprise or gotcha.

Waitwhat23 · 29/01/2023 08:56

FFSgetagripoldlady · 29/01/2023 08:50

Do we know what this person was originally jailed for? Articles talk about stuff happening in prisons but little on why the person is actually in jail. Same for the restraining order. That’s a lifelong order for public safety fears.

From an article from 2017 -

'Scott is one of only some 100 offenders in Scotland subject to an Order for Lifelong Restriction (OLR), meaning she will only be released when she is no longer considered an "unmanageable risk to public safety".

She has a string of conviction for crimes including assaults, vandalism and resisting arrests.

In 2010, she assaulted a nurse when he escaped a hospital in Crewe, Cheshire.

Four years ago, she also admitted stalking a 13-year-old girl by sending her letters from her cell at Polmont Prison, near Falkirk.

She was sentenced to 14 months and given her OLR at the High Court in Glasgow.'

FFSgetagripoldlady · 29/01/2023 08:50

Do we know what this person was originally jailed for? Articles talk about stuff happening in prisons but little on why the person is actually in jail. Same for the restraining order. That’s a lifelong order for public safety fears.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/01/2023 08:42

we have room in society to judge things on a case by case basis

Of course. But until we have facilities other than one for male and one for female, that case by case outcome is about what accommodations will be made in the appropriate sex's estate. It should never be appropriating women's resources as a handy solution to "where do we put this male?"

Because while that might be the easiest solution for the authorities, it's not fair to the women who, despite what patriarchy would have us believe, are more than just resources for men.

Proudofitbabe · 29/01/2023 08:40

That Buck pic is compelling but no - sex-segregated spaces should not be considered case-by-case. There will always be the exceptions but we should be finding ways to accommodate them into the current system, not changing the system to fit the tiny minority!

Males should go to male prison because they are MALE. Not because of their genitalia / muscles / Adam's apple (or lack thereof). Muddying this line and making sex subjective is what's brought us here. Trans people need to know straight up that if they end up in prison it'll correspond to their sex, end of. My advice would be don't get into trouble..!

Waitwhat23 · 29/01/2023 08:36

CandlelightGlow · 29/01/2023 01:20

Nahhh I'm definitely not as trans phobic as lots on here. I've got no problems with using pronouns, referring to myself as a cis woman, and trans people being allowed to use public toilets that match their assigned gender etc.

As much as people always say on here "I'm not transphobic I just believe in single sex spaces" those people in the same breath also say that you can't call trans women women and you can't even say trans and cis women (which by default means you have to say trans women and women, so clearly saying you don't think trans women are women even in the social constructy way and not the cunty way)

Show quote history

Strange then, than in deadnaming the rapist, you have seemingly been deeply transphobic, due to Pink News - www.thepinknews.com/2022/10/17/suella-braverman-attacks-police-trans-people-hate-crimes/

Refusing to refer to myself by the made up nonsense term of 'cis' isn't yet a hate crime (though I'm sure there will be a push to make it so).

And you yourself have said that this rapist shouldn't be in the female prison estate so, you're declaring that it isn't TWAW in every circumstance...which by the standards of those who spout TWAW is deeply transphobic.

Tut tut.

Oh, and the whole 'case by case' thing has lead to the following being incarcerated (or demanding to be moved) in the female estate -

Double rapist.
2 rapists who are demanding to be moved into women's prison
Murderer who identifies as a baby. In a prison with a mother and baby unit.
Murderer who 'had sex' with female inmates.
Paedophile housed in a women's prison with a mother and baby unit who was moved into a female prison after attacking another male in a male prison.

FactsAreNotMean · 29/01/2023 08:30

Ffs, it's not justifying female violence to acknowledge the reality that women are violent less often, and when they are they are physically weaker so they are likely to do less harm than a man displaying equivalent levels of violence. Because men are significantly stronger. Doesn't mean no women kill or injure.

Women should not be imprisoned with men, regardless of their identity and extent of medical treatment.

CandlelightGlow · 29/01/2023 08:20

TheClogLady · 29/01/2023 01:46

Here’s a picture of Buck with two transwomen and another transman.

I would be far more comfortable sharing a cell with Buck, who is a biological female (and happy to discuss that openly) than I would be sharing a cell with a biological male.

I am about 2 inches shorter than Buck and we are both taller than average adult human females in both the UK and the USA.

I really cannot fathom why Buck is always brought up as some sort of scary gotcha.

Testosterone is powerful but it isn’t magical.

My point wasn't though about whether Buck would or would not be safe in a man's prison, I was using Buck Angel as an example of how extremely masculine appearing trans men would not necessarily be a comfort to women in sex segregated groups.

I'm well aware how Buck identifies.

Yes. But ignoring demographics has a greater cost. Life isn't perfect, but doing nothing because we can't be 100% perfect is far worse than doing the best we we can

This is why I agree that a case by case basis system is what works. It's concerning and shocking to me that Andrew Burns' case felt appropriate though to approve his move and I'm praying this will be blocked.

My point is solely that I agree with the poster who got a bit wild that we have room in society to judge things on a case by case basis and in my opinion it's not right to not take into account nuanced situations regarding gender identity in prison sentences. That's what I believe. It's nothing to do with not thinking it's not possible to literally change sex.

Blister · 29/01/2023 08:15

And that's nonsense, the holier than thou argument of I wouldn't use one case to tarnish this group of people. If women speak in general terms they are transphobic, if they speak about particular cases they are transphobic. You are so happy to treat women as a group but transwomen are all case by case. Using made up rules. It's unfair. It's being pointed out.

Blister · 29/01/2023 08:04

Idwtlotpam · 29/01/2023 00:43

I wish my dad was still alive and not her.

All other women need to suffer this criminal because you were beaten by your mother? I was violentky beaten by both parents - what's your point? All humans are bad let's leave the planet? You don't get to give away women's dignity because of bad experiences

Blister · 29/01/2023 07:54

Signalbox · 28/01/2023 23:23

.

And you know one of you scratched the other really badly with her claws so you have the potential to be as dangerous as me. So I'm the same as you.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 29/01/2023 05:33

Buck Angel paid for Buck's cosmetic surgery by starring in niche pornography as a "man with a vagina", in which men were shown vaginally penetrating Buck.

It was apparently very popular.

So no, Buck can absolutely not go in a men's prison. By the way, Buck sounds like an adult human female.