What are the links between Stonewall and WPATH?

HagoftheNorth · 2023-01-26T07:20:40+00:00

I know lots of the people are connected eg Susie Green, but I wondered if anyone knows of formal or informal links between the two organisations?

IwantToRetire · 28/01/2023 19:21

Not quite sure why the link to a Sex Matters article was then taken to be about PIE.

But PIE was very much part of the alternatice society culture, and far too many groups, including NCCL (now Liberty) and Release treated them as legitimate. And in fact (without being able to remember the exact details) I can remember that in fact many in 70s were wary of trans people, because they seemed to be working with PIE. This may just have been PIE trying to say what they wanted was no different from what trans people wanted, and they were all part of the melting pot that was taking a stand against reactionary social norms.

Put if you read this history of PIE and how many in the establishment also had connections, it is a forerunner of how trans activists have been able to get a foot hold in the policy making of this country.

" ... In March 2014, evidence emerged that PIE had received grants totalling £70,000 from the Home Office, after a whistleblower told police he witnessed a successful three-year grant renewal application for £35,000 in 1980, implying that a similar grant had been made in 1977 ... "

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange

Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:39

Night

Original poster

HagoftheNorth · 26/01/2023 23:39

Hope there are - maybe it will be waiting in the morning! Good night, I’m off to bed!

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Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:36

Oh we're not the first to have this discussion, I'm sure there's posters about who could point us to one article that does all the connecting for us.

But it's fascinating what is there with just the most basic of Google searches.

Original poster

HagoftheNorth · 26/01/2023 23:34

String & post it’s 😂
Idle curiosity and access to Google is all it takes. Wonder what an investigative journalist could dig up if they actually tried!

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Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:34

I think the money is coming from there now, but they needed the queer theorists to push the meaning of gender and conflate it with sex. A large group of those then go of f down the route that age is just a social construct route, and bump into the work of PIE and Mooney stuff and it's all gets meddled together. Into something that breaks down sexual societal barriers, removes safeguarding and encourages medical solutions for big money.

Original poster

HagoftheNorth · 26/01/2023 23:29

I’d always assumed the driver was money from big pharma, but maybe that’s just the enabler. Think lots of trans people are collateral damage too.

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Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:27

No I've never been able to work it out. I'll screen shot what there is though for now until someone with better knowledge comes along

Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:26

Of course he knew

I'm just imaging you with a dining room wall covered with photos and articles and string with ? Post it notes

Original poster

HagoftheNorth · 26/01/2023 23:26

Boiled do you know how to archive this thread?

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Original poster

HagoftheNorth · 26/01/2023 23:24

So Thatchell wrote a chapter called ‘Questioning Ages of Majority and Ages of Consent’ and then apologised because he didn’t know it was connected to PIE, even though he was obviously well-acquainted with some of the senior figures in that group? Hmm

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WomanIsBiology · 26/01/2023 23:17

Also WPATH = warpath. Why deliberately choose a name that invokes images of violent confrontations or attacks? Oh yeah, we know why.

Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:15

I've been convinced since all this kicked off as to the true reason behind it all, we are collateral damage, we aren't the target. The children are.

Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:13

These people, like the university MAP and queer theory academics, and WPATH are all enmeshed with each other

Original poster

HagoftheNorth · 26/01/2023 23:12

That’s looking like a pretty close relationship between senior figures in PIE and senior figures in Stonewall!
Keep a copy of your references Boiled

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Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:10

That was a book written by a PIE member and thatchell reviewed

Original poster

HagoftheNorth · 26/01/2023 23:10

Definitely a strong link between the late John Hein, previously v prominent in PIE, and Edinburgh Pride

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/john-hein-emotional-tributes-pour-19519095

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Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:09

Thatchell article

What are the links between Stonewall and WPATH?

Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:06

Dunn a co founder of PIE his obituary was written by Thatchell

Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:02

I've always been convinced PIE never went away, they just diversified.

Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 23:01

HagoftheNorth · 26/01/2023 22:58

Hmm, good call Boiled not found a connection to WPATH, but PIE seemed to have some interesting political links - it’s really old (2014) and I’m not sure how reliable the Scottish Daily Mail is, but shows how far back the political influence goes

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20140621/281681137957838

Any connection to PIE and thatchell

Original poster

HagoftheNorth · 26/01/2023 22:58

Hmm, good call Boiled not found a connection to WPATH, but PIE seemed to have some interesting political links - it’s really old (2014) and I’m not sure how reliable the Scottish Daily Mail is, but shows how far back the political influence goes

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20140621/281681137957838

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Boiledbeetle · 26/01/2023 20:46

IwantToRetire · 26/01/2023 16:38

Interesting to note that WPATH was formed in 1979 - 10 years before Stonewall started.

Article from Sex Matters although no further names exposed sex-matters.org/posts/updates/wpath/

The Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) was a British pro-paedophile activist group, founded in October 1974 and officially disbanded in 1984.

Not saying there's an actual connection to WPATH

But i bet there's an actual connection.

NecessaryScene · 26/01/2023 17:49

Stonewall's never really been in the medical or cosmetic area. I don't recall any WPATH links, or indeed anything much regarding Tavistock/Mermaids etc.

They just picked up trans as a lobbying/money thing, post gay marriage.

And they did that after consultation with one of the more general trans lobby groups - Gendered Intelligence, wasn't it? One of that bunch, anyway.

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HagoftheNorth · 26/01/2023 17:43

Sand, yes, it’s grim isn’t it. I know there are networks of people across Mermaids and WPATH, and between Mermaids and Stonewall, but I haven’t found anything directly connecting WPATH and Stonewall. Maybe Stonewall don’t choose to get involved with WPATH and there are no direct links. Unless anyone knows otherwise?
Thankyou IwantToRetire, useful (though depressing!) article

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