Onlyfans - good or bad for feminism?

stunning observation, Billy

Wether the OP is real or not there will be women on these boards who are thinking about using only fans. If this comes up in the searches and puts just one off then that's all good by me.

That makes perfect sense! Yes the influencers are marketing OF and they do glorify it. It’s not something to do without careful thought and taking precautions. I completely agree with you on this aspect.

Sort of like how fertility clinics freely roam Uni campus job fairs with brochures glorifying selling your eggs to young women.

Interesting that OP has not bothered to reply to the many, long and considered responses.

I would like to repeat here that OF is terrible for men and boys too.

It is awful for us all. It will not lead to betterment of society, and in fact is already poisoning it and making things worse for many people.

@Northernsoullover
Earning what this top creator does you really wouldn't give two hoots about being degraded

er what? You really think that some things aren’t degrading just because they earn you lots of money? You have very little idea how to protect your mental health and well being if you think that’s true.

On top of your odd belief that anything is fine as long as you are paid well, how about deciding not to do OF work because it perpetuates that idea that women are sex objects?

By the way, there is lots of evidence from studies that the vast majority on OF do NOT earn good money from it.

And later on when you go for an interview and they recognise you from wanking to you?

I don't think it's feminist at all for all the very good reasons mentioned by PP. But I also don't think that any of our choices always perfectly align with all of our personal values. Nor should they have to. Life is not an ideological purity contest, and sometimes cold, hard pragmatism wins over dearly held beliefs!

That said, there are very practical implications of stuff such as OF in particular, and hence: very solid pragmatic (as well as, again, feminist) reasons to steer well clear!

I'm an executive at a firm in the professional services field. In other words: my employer makes money by selling services based on the expertise of its staff to (typically corporate) clients. A few months ago, I received a call from a male peer of mine who was looking for my opinion, as a senior woman, on his situation:

My colleague had a young, very talented, and very hard working woman on his client team. And, as it turned out, said youngster had previously ended up on the internet (not OF but PornHub). Needless to say: someone at the client found out. And my colleague wanted to know if I thought he should kick her off his team. I didn't, on balance, think he should for a whole variety of reasons. And, really, neither did he.

He ended up taking her off that team anyway. Not because he thought it was embarrassing or detrimental to the firm's reputation (both of which could be argued) but because that poor woman didn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of being taken seriously as a professional once everyone at the client org had seen or at least heard of her stint in porn. No client wants their statistical analysis run by a porn star! (Because, and that's where we get back to the feminism bit: it's regarded as "less than" and not something any professional woman would get involved in. Because it's read as degrading stuff for the truly desperate. Etc.)

Long story short: don't do it, OP! If not for feminist reasons, which ought to be enough, then because you don't want some Wall Street Analyst to start snickering when you present the quarterly results in an earnings call 20 years from now!

Sorry haven't read the whole thread.

OF is a pyramid marketing con that like most such schemes is sold to women with shit choices by a few people, mostly men. OF is unusual as it reinforces the patriarchal view of women as service cunts/wombs for men.

If I saw a friend on OF I'd be very concerned for her wellbeing.

Hope your article goes well.

It sounds a bit like you are blaming the women who freely use OF to make a bit of money for all the women on OF who are desperate and exploited because they are legitimising such a pathway for women on the brink?

Not the women that freely use. The women that freely use and talk about it in a glorifying manner. I do think these people - it’s not just women, it’s the men who do it as well - need to take responsibility for their actions. They are influencers. The clue is in the name. They influence other people into thinking it’s great. Just like mentioned earlier in the thread is MLM. The “freely using” people who love talking about it influence vulnerable less marketable people to take an irreversible step that they otherwise might not have taken.

There are many accounts of “I saw Person X doing it and thought why not me?”

It’s not the free users per se, it’s the Influencers.

Now you see I never got to be a mother, due to problems caused from the sexual disease and the subsequent pelvic inflammatory disease from the pervert who if he was around today would be using only fans to find his victims, he wasn't fussy, 6 - 80 is his known age range of victims.

Using children's and women's bodies for sexual satisfaction of a man is never OK.

And the women who think it should be an option, or it's empowering, it's should never need to be an option that a women feels she needs to sell her self in that way. And it's not empowering, it's really not.

In an ideal society any women feeling like for whatever reason sex work was the right choice shouldn't be forced into it, or think it's an option. the help and support to find a better way should be an option though.

@Alphavilla exactly what goes around comes around!! And those who say itcwoukdnt bother them at all, see how you feel at 60 with the odd ailment and not feeling quite as confident or gorgeous and finding your partner on these sites and paying for it too

i read the OP and scrolled to the end. For the first time I am commenting without reading the comments. Forgive me Justine, did I am about to sin…

written by a man.

”stunning”

I see you

@greyfox82 that’s why I said, perhaps for a tiny, tiny minority. I accept that for a very select few that might legitimately be the case. But not for the vast majority. And I don’t think ‘empowerment’ trumps all.

@NotBadConsidering
But the women “freely choosing” make up a tiny fraction of the entire users. Most are doing it out of desperation or exploitation. And if someone is genuinely freely choosing, and they aren’t desperate or being trafficked or exploited, they legitimise such a pathway for women who may be on the brink of “free choice”.

It sounds a bit like you are blaming the women who freely use OF to make a bit of money for all the women on OF who are desperate and exploited because they are legitimising such a pathway for women on the brink?

How is what a woman chooses impacting any other women? If a woman chooses not to use OF, it’s not going to save a woman who is on there due to exploitation or desoeration. This goes back to the example of a woman chooses to clean houses to make some extra cash, would she be legitimising a pathway to exploitation of desperate women who end up also cleaning houses?

Im not following your logic? Is it that women who choose OF, are taking money away from women who desperately need it more than them? But doesn’t that then reinforce the idea that sex work is expected and only accepted if you are desperate?

@TangledWebOfDeception I disagree! It can be empowering, but sadly for every woman that is empowered many more get taken advantage.

I think the main point of feminism is as females we're all allowed to disagree and have different opinions 🤷🏼‍♀️

My only concern about only fans is the safety aspect! If it was 100% safe and a woman wanted to get her breasts/bits out for money then she should be able to! Just as a man should be able to make money from his 🍆!

I've read a couple of times on this thread that the women working in the sex industry voluntarily are in the minority- are there statistics to back this up? Wondering because I've gone back and forth on this similarly to the OP. I accept it's bad for women on the whole, but don't like the idea of telling women what they can/can't do with their bodies when it's legal and voluntary.

I've done a quick Google and it looks like around 4,000 are victims of trafficking out of 60,000 - 80,000 in the UK. Not an acceptable figure, but definitely doesn't appear to be the majority.

Look at some of the end of the alphabet beople people there are that used to make big money. K price katonna, that one off hollyoaks (who looks particularly dead behind the eyes in her photos she's not enjoying it).

Do you honestly think when they check how many punters they've got and look at the comments asking for disgusting shit and they'll send more money, every night those women feel good about themselves, lie back and go "yes, this is the life this was totally what i imagined my self doing in my late 40s"

???

No, she means it's just a stupid argument so it would be pointless to make it.

No. I meant exactly what I said.

It isn’t a valid argument.

Perhaps for a tiny, tiny minority. But for women as a class? No. Not valid.

In your opinion, it wouldn't be valid; you meant to say.

@Boiledbeetle
Yes, as mothers we do advise our daughters and have more liberty to influence their decisions. Much more than we’d ever presume to do with another woman who is not our own child.

It’s a conundrum when thinking about what say should society have regarding the choices women have that could potentially harm them. A balance has to be struck.

How protective should we (society) be of women by banning/outlawing/stigmatising certain choices vs how much do we (society) value the emancipation of women such that they are free to make their own choices?

You see this often in terms of how do we prevent exploitation of the vulnerable without infantilising them? But with women it is very sticky because half of the we contributing to the discussion are men. A part of me certainly feels that men should have no say on womens issues.

You could argue that sex work empowers women and can be a means for women to take control of their bodies and sexuality and earn a living on their own terms.

You could argue that. But it wouldn’t be valid.

You could argue that sex work empowers women and can be a means for women to take control of their bodies and sexuality and earn a living on their own terms.

Obviously different people will have different opinions.

Controversially I am going to say it depends who is using it! If a seasoned, savvy glamour model/celeb is using it in whatever capacity, and is making lots of ££££ and is comfortable with what she is choosing to share I think this is fine.

However, I have seen on various forums very young mothers using it as a way of making an extra £100 a week to help with the cost of living. I'm concerned that this is the go to now to make a quick buck without them realising what they're signing up for! Maybe I'm old fashioned, but it feels like these type of users are much more ripe for being taken advantage of! But maybe I'm being old fashioned?!