Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 3

992 replies

Kucinghitam · 25/01/2023 15:07

Continuation of Thread 2.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
SqueakyDinosaur · 09/02/2023 21:46

Well, I have just been asked for suggestions for an icebreaker exercise for a legal team's away day. What could possibly go wrong?

Gonners · 09/02/2023 20:35

Rishi thinks there are two genders and Nicola thinks there are three? Bless them! Even I know that there are as many "genders" - in any (non)sense of that word outside grammar - as words you can make up!

TheABC · 09/02/2023 20:32

MmePoppySeedDefage · 09/02/2023 19:52

"whilst Rishi thinks there are two (and the Tory Government quietly changed the criteria in Jan to avoid this problem)"

I think I must have missed that- can you elaborate please?

Updated on the 25th Jan with no fanfare.

www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-changes-to-transgender-prisoner-policy-framework#:~:text=On%20October%204%202022%20the,in%20the%20general%20women's%20estate.

MmePoppySeedDefage · 09/02/2023 19:52

"whilst Rishi thinks there are two (and the Tory Government quietly changed the criteria in Jan to avoid this problem)"

I think I must have missed that- can you elaborate please?

duc748 · 09/02/2023 19:32

Heh! 😀

Gonners · 09/02/2023 19:27

@duc748 - I suppose LEAs are pretty much neutered at the moment

In the context of hunt-the-gonads, you might want to rephrase that. Yes, I know it is wrong and bad of me, but it's so difficult not to laugh ... while simultaneously being angry.

duc748 · 09/02/2023 18:38

I read some of the stuff on the website. One thing that jumps out is the strong reluctance to use the word 'women'. Or, indeed, 'men'. It's all "people with penises" and "people with vulvas". It's a tell, isn't it? Like "sex work is brilliant and rewarding".

StephanieSuperpowers · 09/02/2023 18:17

The fact that it wasn't in the material doesn't mean that it couldn't have come up verbally. To my mind, the people designing and delivering this sensitive information need to be completely clear about suitable material at all times.

duc748 · 09/02/2023 18:13

From what I gathered reading that thread, the highlighted quotes were not actually from classroom sex educ material. Doesn't alter the fact that we've somehow let these dubious pressure groups into our schools. Where's the oversight? I suppose LEAs are pretty much neutered at the moment, that was the idea of the 'academies', wasn't it?

ErrolTheDragon · 09/02/2023 18:03

Kucinghitam · 09/02/2023 17:06

Good sex education in schools would go a long way to help.

This sort of thing, perhaps?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4586090-sex-work-is-rewarding-pupils-told-by-education-providers

This, allegedly, from the BISH website:

Our genitals are on a spectrum in terms of: how much erectile tissue sticks out (clitorises and dicks and inbetween); where the prostate is; where the wee hole is; whether the gonads are inside or outside; vagina size. Many people are in the middle of this spectrum with how their bodies are configured

Well, at least the website is accurately named

www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/bish

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 09/02/2023 17:58

Spectrum suggests it could be pretty much anywhere, so I'll start with the sofa and let you know.

Men do tend to be better at this game, so if they find theirs first they can get bonus points for measuring their vaginas.

duc748 · 09/02/2023 17:52

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 09/02/2023 17:31

a spectrum in terms of: [...] where the prostate is

I trust we are all now planning an evening game of "Where's My Prostate?".

If you find one in good working order down the back of the sofa... 😀

StephanieSuperpowers · 09/02/2023 17:34

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 09/02/2023 17:31

a spectrum in terms of: [...] where the prostate is

I trust we are all now planning an evening game of "Where's My Prostate?".

Yes, I certainly am. No idea where to start, none of the medical books are giving me any clues but you know, I'm sure I'll find it eventually. I think it may be a bum thing, which I tend to leave alone for the most part...

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 09/02/2023 17:31

a spectrum in terms of: [...] where the prostate is

I trust we are all now planning an evening game of "Where's My Prostate?".

StephanieSuperpowers · 09/02/2023 17:09

Do you know what? I didn't think something would come up where my response would be "I swear I'll do time..." but if my child comes home from school and some nitwit has told them that, I swear I'll do time!!!

Original poster
Kucinghitam · 09/02/2023 17:08

I think there's a massive gulf between banning a book and promoting it.

Exactly. There's all kinds of books about everything. Many of them are shit. Many of them are full of lies. As a general principle, I'm not in favour of highlighting the shit&lies ones for special Awesome Awards.

OP posts:
Original poster
Kucinghitam · 09/02/2023 17:06

Good sex education in schools would go a long way to help.

This sort of thing, perhaps?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4586090-sex-work-is-rewarding-pupils-told-by-education-providers

This, allegedly, from the BISH website:

Our genitals are on a spectrum in terms of: how much erectile tissue sticks out (clitorises and dicks and inbetween); where the prostate is; where the wee hole is; whether the gonads are inside or outside; vagina size. Many people are in the middle of this spectrum with how their bodies are configured

OP posts:
StephanieSuperpowers · 09/02/2023 17:04

I think there's a massive gulf between banning a book and promoting it. This looks to me like one that should need to be sought by teens who are feeling a certain way (preferably with a trusted adult they can discuss the content with) rather than one that is celebrated as for the general reader.

Because it is quite niche and teenagers are, despite what they think, very vulnerable, very worried about normality and whether they measure up and often confused.

MavisMcMinty · 09/02/2023 17:01

Oh indeed, that’s what I mean, it shouldn’t be banned. If I saw the book I’d read it, or at least ask the owner/reader what they thought of it. I actually do want to read it now, despite being as appalled at the images I’ve seen as anyone else.

Original poster
Kucinghitam · 09/02/2023 16:57

Oh, I don't think the book should be banned - just that it's not a good message for distressed children to be encountering (encouraging hatred of their developing bodies and that the cause is because they're "really" a boy and the cure is permanent medicalisation, lying about the real physical effects of said permanent medicalisation, etc) and for those reasons, it's hardly a book I'd think should be shortlisted for awards and special kudos (which was the original subject of the thread).

OP posts:
MavisMcMinty · 09/02/2023 16:45

I agree with Stephen King on this:

”Hey, kids! It's your old buddy Steve King telling you that if they ban a book in your school, haul your ass to the nearest bookstore or library ASAP and find out what they don't want you to read.”

So I can’t say “except for this book, oh and that one, and maybe that other one as well”. Banning it would only make me want to read it more. Records banned by Radio 1 usually got to number one.

duc748 · 09/02/2023 16:28

On that book, I share the unease, to put it mildly, but girls cannot be kept from that book (and, presumably, others in the same vein), if they don't access it in book format, they will online. Good sex education in schools would go a long way to help.

StephanieSuperpowers · 09/02/2023 16:19

So she really hasn't seen how the wind is blowing?

SqueakyDinosaur · 09/02/2023 16:16

I see the fragrant Susie Green has turned up as a project manager/ fundraiser for Gender GP. That doesn't seem dodgy or nepotistic in the slightest. Not even a little bit.

StephanieSuperpowers · 09/02/2023 15:56

duc748 · 09/02/2023 14:01

There's certainly a live one on the "Beauty students urged to strip... " thread, been there last day or two. Strong case for DNFTT, I think.

Show quote history

It's interesting. Is there more obtuseness than usual around right now?