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Original poster

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 3

992 replies

Kucinghitam · 25/01/2023 15:07

Continuation of Thread 2.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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ErrolTheDragon · 16/02/2023 18:10

StephanieSuperpowers · 16/02/2023 16:30

Does anyone else thinks we need a women's rights bookclub? There's a read and discuss a chapter a day on an agreed book on the books section. It might be a good way to get wider engagement with the current literature...

Actually, given the deluge of work coming out right now, we may need more than a chapter a day if we did this - we could also extend it to podcast episodes.

Would that be a good idea?

There used to be a specific board for it, iirc, but it wasn't used much.
However, some specific threads would be worth trying - why not?!

StephanieSuperpowers · 16/02/2023 17:45

Me too, to be honest. I have Glosswitch and Hannah Barnes on pre order now, I just feel like sharing the experience!

Original poster
Kucinghitam · 16/02/2023 17:32

It's a good idea BUT... I don't know how many people could keep up with all the stuff available, I know I would struggle!

OP posts:
StephanieSuperpowers · 16/02/2023 16:30

Does anyone else thinks we need a women's rights bookclub? There's a read and discuss a chapter a day on an agreed book on the books section. It might be a good way to get wider engagement with the current literature...

Actually, given the deluge of work coming out right now, we may need more than a chapter a day if we did this - we could also extend it to podcast episodes.

Would that be a good idea?

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 16/02/2023 16:22

ScrollingLeaves · 16/02/2023 14:29

So, for example, a man in the West might stereotypically be expected to be outspoken, professionally ambitious, and physically protective of his family

I think a man being physically protective of his family may not be ‘gender’ but quite primitive and instinctive, and based in his biology, even though some men will be less like this than others. This is where I diverge from GC.

Are women not physically protective of their families too though? Of their children at least. My GC question about 'would you rather go in a field with a bull in it or one with just cows?' always contains the proviso about not getting between a cow and her calf.

SinnerBoy · 16/02/2023 15:07

*ScrollingLeaves · Today 14:43

The misuse of language is in science writing too; Sex, New Scientist and me | Octavia Sheepshanks | The Critic Magazine

Crikey, what a bag of wank!

Britinme · 16/02/2023 15:05

A friend of mine was the science editor for the OED (now retired but occasionally still does some work for them). I will talk to him about this when I see him in a week or two.

StephanieSuperpowers · 16/02/2023 14:57

It's not just unscientific, it's just so silly.

duc748 · 16/02/2023 14:51

That's one of the biggest worries for me, the fact that the likes of New Scientist and The Lancet have been captured. And similar organisations in other countries. Fundamentally, this genderwoo is unscientific.

ScrollingLeaves · 16/02/2023 14:43

Thank you. That is a very interesting article.

Unfortunately though it may be a bit late to stop the misuse of language kin the name of trans gender ideology.

Even the OED is doing it. Their new definitions are coming from scanning US writing and things on-line as well as British English, so it will snowball too. Their App has homosexuality as same sex or gender attracted, for example.

The misuse of language is in science writing too;
Sex, New Scientist and me | Octavia Sheepshanks | The Critic Magazine

thecritic.co.uk/sex-new-scientist-and-me/

ScrollingLeaves · 16/02/2023 14:29

So, for example, a man in the West might stereotypically be expected to be outspoken, professionally ambitious, and physically protective of his family

I think a man being physically protective of his family may not be ‘gender’ but quite primitive and instinctive, and based in his biology, even though some men will be less like this than others. This is where I diverge from GC.

MavisMcMinty · 16/02/2023 12:00

Great article and comments.

duc748 · 16/02/2023 11:27

What a good and clearly written piece. Couldn't agree more. It's like... The Voice Of Reason, isn't it? 😃

Tricyrtis2022 · 16/02/2023 07:40

What will you say, MmePoppySeed?

Original poster
Kucinghitam · 16/02/2023 05:53

NotDrowningJustCrowing · 16/02/2023 02:32

Another article that's a good read. What she has to say about gender wrt to time, place and culture is a big part of my own viewpoint. To put it bluntly, gender is mutable. Gender norms have changed within all of our lifetimes and will continue to do so. We can come up with all sorts of new names to give to gender "norms" and ultimately non-binary is the biggest bollocks of them all. I would imagine that absolutely everyone here could call themselves non-binary if they chose to because I doubt any of us fit comfortably into whatever the current gender norms for women or men are. Obviously, she is far more articulate than me!

It's maddening because we fought so hard to make things that were considered "abnormal" to be "normal" and this whole gender ideology thing is pushing us backwards. They may all think they're progressive but they are anything but.

Oh! Link.
sex and gender are different things

Thanks for that article - it really was excellent, and (like you) it echoed much of what I think. The comments underneath are also very good.

OP posts:
NotDrowningJustCrowing · 16/02/2023 02:32

Another article that's a good read. What she has to say about gender wrt to time, place and culture is a big part of my own viewpoint. To put it bluntly, gender is mutable. Gender norms have changed within all of our lifetimes and will continue to do so. We can come up with all sorts of new names to give to gender "norms" and ultimately non-binary is the biggest bollocks of them all. I would imagine that absolutely everyone here could call themselves non-binary if they chose to because I doubt any of us fit comfortably into whatever the current gender norms for women or men are. Obviously, she is far more articulate than me!

It's maddening because we fought so hard to make things that were considered "abnormal" to be "normal" and this whole gender ideology thing is pushing us backwards. They may all think they're progressive but they are anything but.

Oh! Link.
sex and gender are different things

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 15/02/2023 23:29

I doubt he will - has always been somewhat set to broadcast rather than receive.

MmePoppySeedDefage · 15/02/2023 22:59

Maybe she'll take the opportunity to have a look, Bint. So many people who are now GC started out being kind, and then something piqued their interest or struck them as being not quite right. Maybe she's never asked herself what JKR said, and will check.

I'm at a meeting with members of the civil service tomorrow and am mentally preparing myself to be asked to state my pronouns...

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 15/02/2023 21:47

Good uncle-ing, Sinner.

Well, I had a response. Not read the essay, never read anything she's written on the topic, but has heard her speak and she very definitely said heaps of bigoted transphobic things. Of course they can't remember the exact details ...

<Sigh>

SinnerBoy · 15/02/2023 19:00

Was / Were / Has Been

mach2 · 15/02/2023 18:43

Nicola's pronouns are now was/were

duc748 · 15/02/2023 18:19

A sort of reverse-Boris!

Arf! 😃

Tricyrtis2022 · 15/02/2023 18:17

Tricyrtis2022 · 15/02/2023 17:55

Artemisia Gentileschi too. She did some incredibly blood thirsty stuff - with good reason - but her rich depictions of fabrics is beautiful.

Bugger, wrong thread...

Waitwhat23 · 15/02/2023 18:03

Gonners · 15/02/2023 17:39

Isn't the Sturgeon thing supposed to be connected with her husband subbing the party when they've been short of funds by means of loans? A sort of reverse-Boris!

A loan of £107,000.

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23302114.sturgeon-cant-recall-knew-husband-loaned-snp-107-000/

SinnerBoy · 15/02/2023 18:02

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · Today 16:26

I've sent the person I saw share it a link to JKR's essay and asked if they think they're helping the situation. So I'm expecting a slightly shorter friend list next time I log in.

Funnily enough, I rarely talk about this in real life, but our niece came up for a long weekend. I took her and her husband to the pub and my wife took the baby.

At some point, we were talking about Harry Potter, she's a big fan. She asked me what I thought about JKR and as she's very liberal minded, I was cautious and asked if she thought she was a transphobe.

"Of course not, I've read her essay. Have YOU?"

Phew! She hadn't heard of Maya F, Alison Bailey, K Stock - she says she's going to look them up.