Rape Crisis Scotland on Isla Bryson

One is too many. It infuriates me that people think small numbers = no big deal. It’s still very much a big deal.

KPSS:

"In light of the decision made by @scottishprisons to allocate a double rapist to the female estate, this statement from @MoJGovUK is timely."

The revised policy is expected in 3 to 4 weeks: today's statement gives an indication of changes:
TW who have male genitalia; OR who have been convicted of sexual offences will not serve their sentences in the general women’s estate unless there are exceptional circumstances.

How this interacts with GRC status is not yet clear. Whether this will see allocation of more prisoners to E Wing is also unclear.
We await the full revised policy which I will be discussing with MoJ as a matter of priority."

twitter.com/noxyinxxprisons/status/1618279455604236289?s=46&t=DgrxOACGjPdR7b_GZqH9KQ

www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-changes-to-transgender-prisoner-policy-framework

I would respectfully suggest there are NO circumstances in which a male should be housed with women. Time to push back, and hard. Time to write to our MPs

So 7/283 prisoners is about 1 in 40 in the female estate.

Again, just logistically, how are they supposed to be accommodated?

Some people clearly believe this shouldn’t be a problem because the numbers are small, but the problem should be immediately obvious to anyone who just looks at the figures.

It’s also offensive to suggest, with clear problems on the police and probation services and over crowding in pretty much all prisons that women should be placated with ‘risk assessments’
Indeed. And what is the risk assessment? Is it the risk to the trans identifying prisoner? Or the risk to the female inmates?
Are there any transmen in male prisons? If so, are they risk assessed or is the risk assessment the risk to them? And are they kept in solitary?

I am so tired of this shit. But the double rapist very obviously a man gaming the system is everywhere. They can't pretend anymore that this never happens.

I think this is the point we need to hammer home. Women shouldn't just be the dispensers of kindness, sometimes, if you're looking for a group to direct a benign eye towards, maybe consider whether women could do with it?

Be Kind - To Women.

Sorry enough trans prisoners to merit a trans wing

Isn’t there enough trans prisons now to merit a trans prison /
wing in accordance with birth sex? www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11674903/Scotland-female-transgender-prisoners-womens-prisons-UK.html

Right now you're doing a better job at describing the actual truth than Sandy ever has

But aren’t we supposed to believe that a gender identity is innate therefore these males have always been female even if they only “found the words to express themselves” post conviction / incarceration?

We don't have women's prisons, we have men's prisons and mixed sex prisons.

in 2021 there were only about 283 women in Scottish Prisons in total.

30% were awaiting trial.

in comparison There were over 7000 male prisoners. (25% awaiting trial). 893 were sentenced for rape or sexual assault.

It’s not clear how many women were sentenced for sex related offences, but it’s a tiny number - so small that adding an extra 1 or 2 people would make a very significant difference.

I think ‘general’ is doing a lot of work in that tweet, but just logistically it should be clear that there isn’t suitable separate provision in women’s prisons for rapists.

It’s also offensive to suggest, with clear problems on the police and probation services and over crowding in pretty much all prisons that women should be placated with ‘risk assessments’.

So what are Rape Crisis Scotland suggesting?

This. My understanding of prisoners is that their sexual practices can differ in prison in comparison to out of prison. Men and women may indulge in same sex relationships which they wouldn’t outside. Whether it’s for emotional comfort or libido driven I couldn’t say.
I would be very very concerned that a person with a penis - a man - would be incarcerated with women. The potential for rape/sexual assault/violence/coercion or threats of is unacceptable imo.
Prison officers are vetted before employment, partly to ensure they don’t present a threat to prisoners. Yet a man has raped a woman prison officer in a women’s prison. Sorry I can’t remember the details but I’m sure others can.
Is there anything we can do? Lobby our mp’s or something more effective?

@BellaAmorosa thank you, your explanation of sandy's motives makes sense to me now.

I thought it was unusual for a Scottish organisation to be uncaptured...

(of course why they are identifying as female is obvious - I was trying to word things as carefully to avoid MN deletion)

Absolutely right.

NO MALES in a FEMALE prison.

And even if they weren't before, what a temptation to become one.

It's routine practice to house males sentenced for any offence in the women's prison estate if they claim to be one.

Remember, the male sex offenders are just the ones who've been detected, charged, tried, found guilty and sentenced to prison. Only a tiny proportion of men committing such offences get to this point.

So what proportion of male offenders who claim to be women and get put in a women's prison (or in fact in order to get placed there) might be undetected sex offenders?

@ArabellaScott
Yup. Same with changing rooms, toilets, all SS spaces - no males. Women's privacy and dignity are both enough to constitute a boundary.

@ThereIbledit
Adam Graham/Isla Bryson discovered his inner woman after arrest but before conviction. Others have done this after conviction but before sentencing. It seems like splitting hairs since the motivation to declare a special identity is the same. And of course everyone is who they say they are without exception, so...
I think Sandy Brierly realises the PR problems raised and is trying to limit the damage by making it look as if sexual assaults by males claiming to be women are rare and the issue of where he will be accommodated is a new one, as opposed to it being routine practice to house male sexual offenders in the women's prison estate if they claim to be one.

Can some explain this to me?

Are the Courts saying that TIMs can't rape because rape requires a penis and TIMs are women so can't/don't have penises or that a sexual assault using a penis can only be prosecuted as a sexualt using an object? As if it were a chair or something?

In cases of assault using something, whatever it is, the thing is usually taken away. Can we not disarm these prisoners before they go into the female estate, then?

If a man beat up his wife using his fists, OK, his hands wouldn't be removed, but he'd not be housed in the female estate. I think the weapons used against women should be removed from the perpetrators before they can be considered for the female estate.

The prison authorities and Scot Gov lacky groups like Rape Crisis are not taking any account of the constant anxiety the female prisoners suffer when male bodied prisoners are locked up with them, ex female prisoners have described "being constantly on edge". The female prisoners are also being effectively silenced, if they use the wrong pronouns or complain they lose privileges. So these poor women cannot even complain about their situation.

Actually, they need to say all offences. Males should never be housed with females.