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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Miriam Cates is on Politics Live today, 25 January.

140 replies

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 11:19

Hoping Miriam gets a chance to address the odious attack on her by Lloyd Russell Moyles, and the conviction yesterday of the double rapist who claims he's a woman.

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Ridemeginger · 25/01/2023 18:28

KJK on GB News discussing the Scottish rapist:

IcakethereforeIam · 25/01/2023 18:15

Paulette Hamilton came across very badly.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 17:56

The Russell Findlay urgent question at Holyrood. Including LAbour's Pauline McNeill questioning the fitness for purpose of the SPS risk assessment.

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ResisterRex · 25/01/2023 17:50

Labour MP Paulette Hamilton on the "gentleman". That's what she said. Gentleman.

twitter.com/timesradio/status/1618280972885057537?s=46&t=DgrxOACGjPdR7b_GZqH9KQ

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 17:50

@OldCrone , I knew you would get deleted for talking about the children. I can't believe we are still being censored on this.

This is the HoL Q&A earlier about consultation on school guidance on trans. Includes Baronesses Fox and Faulkner and the odious Lord Cashman. The minister does not inspire confidence in me that GC parents and teachers will be listened to. Still waiting on a letter to schools telling them they must share SE materials and not seek to hide behind spurious IP excuses not to share (a matter that was raised last Summer before Boris was ousted) .

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duc748 · 25/01/2023 17:40

Well, that just says it all, doesn't it?

Muppets is #beingkind, but shows how they've been played.

Datun · 25/01/2023 17:35

Revealed: Scotland has more transgender prisoners in women's prisons than England and Wales combined as it emerges half of the inmates only began transitioning after they were convicted

What a bunch of shameful muppets these people are.

Isn't even one of them saying, oh, I wonder how long it will take for the entire male criminal community to identify as women now?

It's going to go one of two ways, isn't it? Either they start to tighten up the criteria, which will be almost impossible in the teeth of transactivism, or every single prison will become mixed sex.

I'm guessing the latter.

They would rather sacrifice the safety of every single female prisoner, rather than upset one male criminal.

PronounssheRa · 25/01/2023 17:24

I suspect me and miriam have some political differences, but she is very good on this, really knows her stuff and is so good at explaining the point.

I wonder if she walks among us?

BeBraveLittlePenguin · 25/01/2023 16:37

AutumnCrow · 25/01/2023 15:03

I've noticed a few women in politics like ET and Penny Mordaunt have cultivated that rich, plummy voice (presumably) to make their out and out lies sound more plausible. I know ET's a QC but dear lord she doesn't half over-egg it.

Thatcher had to have voice coaching to get anywhere near that zone of plummy deep-toned smugness.

It won't wash any more with me. Emily Thornberry is a dangerous gaslighting liar. I'm glad Blunkett of Sheffield has appeared over the hill banging his drum.

She's not a QC (KC these days). She married a v prominent commercial barrister who went on to take silk and then became a HC judge and Court of Appeal judge. She practised for 20 years or so but never took silk.

OldCrone · 25/01/2023 16:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ResisterRex · 25/01/2023 15:54

Latest on that "most vulnerable group"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11674903/Scotland-female-transgender-prisoners-womens-prisons-UK.html

Revealed: Scotland has more transgender prisoners in women's prisons than England and Wales combined as it emerges half of the inmates only began transitioning after they were convicted

"The number of female transgender prisoners placed in women's prisons in Scotland has surpassed England and Wales after rapist Isla Bryson was convicted yesterday, MailOnline believes.

...

According to a recent report published by the Scottish Prison Service (SPS), there were 11 trans women and five trans men in Scottish prisons at the end of June 2022.
Of the 11 trans women, six were held in men's prisons and five were held in women's prisons. If the figures remain the same today, Bryson and Dolatowski would take that to seven trans women in women's prisons – more than the six in England and Wales cited in a recent Ministry of Justice report.

Of the five trans men in Scottish jails, who were born female, one was held in a men's prison and four were held in women's prisons last year.

Bryson, who was Adam Graham when carrying out the violent sex attacks in 2016 and 2019, began transitioning after being charged by police. New figures emerged today revealing eight other male and female trans criminals in Scotland did the same after being convicted or remanded in custody."

Signalbox · 25/01/2023 15:43

Datun · 25/01/2023 14:20

Both sides need to remember that this is about the most vulnerable people in our society who are trans people, and to stop screaming at each other, and to sit down and discuss it in a sensible way.

On what fucking planet does a rapist being given incarcerated women as part of his sentence make him the fucking vulnerable one!

Or a rubbish male athlete scooping awards trophies and finance off women, make him the vulnerable one!

Or men shouting, screaming, spitting and threatening to rape and kill women, and riding roughshod over their boundaries?

Has she changed the entire meaning of the word vulnerable now to mean powerful and intimidatory??

What fucking planet is she on. These idiots.

Perhaps he is trans vulnerable. Either that or the word vulnerable doesn’t mean what it used to mean and the OED hasn’t got round to updating yet.

picklemewalnuts · 25/01/2023 15:39

Vebrithien · 25/01/2023 14:16

I do, just wonder, if David Blunkett has somewhat more of an awareness of being vulnerable, and discriminated against, due to his visual impairment?

Perhaps more so than a 'standard' make politician?

David Blunkett is immune to the trappings of Gender. He isn't distracted by blue hair, lipstick and handbags. He knows what a woman is, regardless of the make up preferences.

Datun · 25/01/2023 15:38

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 15:13

Miriam Cates on Times Radio earlier:

She's really good. She knows what's going on, and she can think on her feet.

If she ever reads this, Miriam, next time someone tries to narrow the definition of what kind of man, exactly, would you find acceptable in a woman's space, you can point out that it is the women in those spaces who that man is using.

It's the women's presence that makes the space desirable for him. They are being employed in the service of his self image.

And it's not just a self image that is detrimental to women everywhere, but now the very people for whom is detrimental are expected to validate it!

If all the women left the space in question and went elsewhere, he would no longer want to be in it.

And their new space would become the focus of his desire.

It's the women who are being used here. Any 'space' being talked about, is just a proxy for using women.

So the answer to what criteria is acceptable for a man to meet, in order to use women, is absolutely fucking none.

Lyonesse2020 · 25/01/2023 15:37

Vebrithien · 25/01/2023 14:16

I do, just wonder, if David Blunkett has somewhat more of an awareness of being vulnerable, and discriminated against, due to his visual impairment?

Perhaps more so than a 'standard' make politician?

I also wonder what the impact of only hearing trans individuals speak may be - however convincing they are visually, they can never change their voices, can they?

SinnerBoy · 25/01/2023 15:31

MoirasSaggyBundles · Today 15:19

That's depressingly well put.

SinnerBoy · 25/01/2023 15:29

GettingMarriedAgain · Today 15:07

Also has anyone ever provided evidence that ‘both sides’ behave in a shouty uncivilised way? Emily Thornbury is always wanging on about both sides.

No, they simply think that constant repetition makes it true and they know that most people won't investigate it. There's an argument, people see that, then mostly turn off / tune out a bit and believe someone who's given airtime.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 15:28

ResisterRex · 25/01/2023 12:58

While that was going on, this happened in Parliament. From 11:57. Laura Farris and Kemi.

www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/9b8ec96e-08bc-48a8-b970-a7c8130d8afa

LF: pleased the government is reinstating 3rd party harassment protection in the workplace. But there is a confusion around sex and gender. Can she confirm that the EHRC will be publishing guidance on protecting belief in the workplace?

KB: the government will be supporting the EHRC in producing a statutory code on workplace harassment, and the government will produce its own guidance on sexual harassment which should address the very issues (LF) raises

Before that, at 11:45, Ellie Reeves of Labour asked about closing the "gender pay gap". Kemi said the government will not accept Labour's proposals and that conflating equal pay with gender pay gap reporting is not the same thing. It's one of the areas that has quite a lot of nuance and Labour needs to "a little bit more of its own homework"

Here's the short Q&A clip

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duc748 · 25/01/2023 15:21

Arf! 😁That is exactly it!

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 15:19

Emily Thornberry. Tilts head. Softens voice. Talking to a naughty child attitude. I'm so very fed up with your behaviour. I am ever so reasonable, but if you carry on, you will have to go to bed with no supper. Your inability to play nice with the nice beardy boys is just not ladylike or kind. I don't care if he stole your toys and punched you, your fuss is giving me a headache, and I won't stand for it.

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bellinisurge · 25/01/2023 15:16

Miriam Cates is a superhero on this.

Datun · 25/01/2023 15:13

RoyalCorgi · 25/01/2023 14:34

I feel your rage, Datun. Why do journalists never challenge politicians on this "most vulnerable" nonsense? I can think of any number of groups (elderly people, disabled people, single mums, refugees) who are a darn sight more effing vulnerable than a bunch of cross-dressing middle-aged men.

It's the only thing they've got. It's the only thing they ever had. And it only worked, because most people didn't know anyone who was trans. They weren't in the papers, or in your face, or your changing room.

And, as we all know, it was a deliberately engineered narrative.

Which is now falling apart.

i'm just assuming that these people are taking longer to catch up than others. Journalists and MPs alike.

And yes, the question needs to be asked. Which one is most vulnerable again? The rapists in women's prisons? The sports cheats? Or the spitting, threatening, shouting bullies?

MoirasSaggyBundles · 25/01/2023 15:13

Miriam Cates on Times Radio earlier:

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duc748 · 25/01/2023 15:07

My low opinion of ET only confirmed. Mind you, I don't find Blunkett much of a hero either. Where are the decent voices in Labour who see this gaslighting for what it is?

GettingMarriedAgain · 25/01/2023 15:07

OldCrone · 25/01/2023 13:39

Both sides need to remember that this is about the most vulnerable people in our society who are trans people

Has anyone, anywhere, ever provided any evidence to back up their claims that trans people are 'the most vulnerable people in our society'?

Or do they think that if they keep repeating this claim it somehow becomes true?

And if they truly believe this, why are they going into schools and trying to persuade children that they 'might be trans' so that they can become part of the most vulnerable group? Why would anyone want to push children into becoming even more vulnerable than they already are?

Also has anyone ever provided evidence that ‘both sides’ behave in a shouty uncivilised way? Emily Thornbury is always wanging on about both sides. It’s very tiresome